PacMan Food VS: Dustid Crickits

[Locascio]

This is a comparison between feeding a fulltime diet.the first 2 pics are of a frog that hase been fed pacman food 3x a week. the 2ed pics are frogs that have been only eating dustid crickits 3x a week thay all wear the same size when i got them from Mike. around the size of a nickel. as you can see the first pic is a 2 inch frog as wear the other frogs are less than an inch. The 2 tan/brown pacman frogs pic1 and 3 come frog the same spon.

[Locascio]

*From

[Locascio]

this is all within a 6 week time frame

[GrifTheGreat]

I want to say that while this shows significant growth differences crickets are essentially an empty food source. Even gutloaded they are not very nutritious. This comparison would be better suited for a comparison between more nutritious foods such as night crawlers or Dubia roaches, but is very informative.

Try using night crawlers as one frog's staple and Pacman Food for another and see what the results might be. I get significant growth from a staple of Night Crawlers, but I also offer food daily. Treats are waxworms, dubias, Hornworms, pinkies, and Pacman food.

Would be an excellent comparison if you were to compare it to better food items. Crickets have nowhere near the nutrition of Pacman food.

I like the growth the Pacman food gives but I don't think it makes a good staple.

[Locascio]

I want to say that while this shows significant growth differences crickets are essentially an empty food source. Even gutloaded they are not very nutritious. This comparison would be better suited for a comparison between more nutritious foods such as night crawlers or Dubia roaches, but is very informative.

Try using night crawlers as one frog's staple and Pacman Food for another and see what the results might be. I get significant growth from a staple of Night Crawlers, but I also offer food daily. Treats are waxworms, dubias, Hornworms, pinkies, and Pacman food.

Would be an excellent comparison if you were to compare it to better food items. Crickets have nowhere near the nutrition of Pacman food.

I like the growth the Pacman food gives but I don't think it makes a good staple.

I also was thinking this very same thing tonight i will be buying a few dozen night crawlers and going to start with some of my smallest pacs doing this very same thing. ill post rezults in another 6 weeks. Grif can i ask why is it you dont use the pacman food as a staple? what is it about it that doseint sit right with you.
and i will say that that brown from is somewhat of a freek . there some that are close but not like this one

[GrifTheGreat]

I also was thinking this very same thing tonight i will be buying a few dozen night crawlers and going to start with some of my smallest pacs doing this very same thing. ill post rezults in another 6 weeks. Grif can i ask why is it you dont use the pacman food as a staple? what is it about it that doseint sit right with you.
and i will say that that brown from is somewhat of a freek . there some that are close but not like this one

I just don't care for the stuff. Also it contains a lot of stuff that a frog would never knowingly ingest. Most of the food contains ash(filler) that we don't even know what it's comprised of. Frogs fed this as a staple seem to mature much faster than the normal rate so it isn't just rapid growth, but rapid sexual maturity peak at a much younger age. To me that is unnatural. Its as if this food also contains hormones and steroids. Even though there is nothing in the label to suggest that it does contain these I find it odd that this stuff causes such large growth rates. Frogs that tend to grow at extreme rates tend to top out early too thus they don't reach their full potential. Plus each individual frog matures and grows at its own pace so it may work well for some and not others.

I also don't think it has everything a frog needs as it claims. I still see frogs with MBD and other deficiency based diseases that should not occur if this food was truly a complete whole food source with all needs included. It is also very messy which I am not terribly bothered with, but it just adds one more reason why I don't think it makes a good staple. I will not say that it is a bad product, just don't think it is a solution to feeding living prey. It is good for when you want to cut some time off your feeding schedule though.

[Herpguy]

I am with Grif on that the pacman food has a lot of things that are unnatural for a frog to consume. Ren over at fatfrogs did a complete breakdown of every ingredient contained in the food.

Also, this is only a comparison between 2 frogs. In order to draw any conclusions you need to have a much larger group than that to observe. No 2 frogs will have the same growth rate, and who is to know if they are even the same gender?

[GrifTheGreat]

I am with Grif on that the pacman food has a lot of things that are unnatural for a frog to consume. Ren over at fatfrogs did a complete breakdown of every ingredient contained in the food.

Also, this is only a comparison between 2 frogs. In order to draw any conclusions you need to have a much larger group than that to observe. No 2 frogs will have the same growth rate, and who is to know if they are even the same gender?

Exactly!

[Mentat]

Mmm I can see this getting long winded .When you state "PacMan Food" are you referring to this product from Japan: =TOP= of PacmanFood.com . I've never used it; but did feed my African Bullfrog and Pacman a product from Repashy available at local Pet Shop called Meat Pie: Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: Meat Pie Reptile Gel :: Meat Pie Reptile 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center. I have no way to make comparisons; but both my frogs ate it and I gave it to them as a supplement to their dusted night crawlers main diet (2X a week CA and 1X a week multivitamins, both from Repashy).

Although your sample size is only one, it's a marked growth difference between it and the other frogs. If you take the three smaller frogs and feed one dusted night crawlers; PacMan food to second and either dusted crickets or Repashy's Meat Pie to third it would make and interesting comparison. In my humble opinion earthworms are the "perfect" live African Bullfrog & PacMan food.

Japan does appear to have stricter quality control and regulations (and I use Hikari foods for my fish). Having said that; my past experience with pet foods coming from other Asian localities (Malaysia, Thailand, Taiwan, China) is one of apprehension and doubt. It's very hard to know what you are exactly feeding your pet (hormones, etc.?) and even when you find a good product; then there are the clones coming from China and only God knows what is inside the look alike bag. Remember the fiasco couple years back when a Chinese company was discovered adding pulverized plastic to dog and cat food in order to raise the protein content ?

I would be very observant of a product that affects growth that much. Not only is there a possibility of growth enhancing compounds in the mix; but the accelerated growth itself might create a challenge for the organism and lead to permanent issues. Our bodies and those of all living creatures have genetic triggers that respond to many inputs including chemical and hormonal levels. Start messing with those and you affect the whole system. As an example; it's my experience that the process called "Pumping" in fish raising is negative to the fish. They might grow twice as fast... but their bones are not as strong and apparently internal organs growth is challenged too. I have a local friend that keeps, breeds, and sells tarantulas. There is also a process to make them grow fast by raising temperature and overfeeding them. When he tried to do that with his males; he eventually lost them during molts before he had a chance to breed them... just saying.

I can see a benefit in using PacMan food to a breeder that wants to bring froglets to market size as fast as possible. Still; for the hobbyist with one to few PacMans, providing a balanced diet to include live items might be a better way than to use a single prepared food that makes them grow very fast. I'm looking forward to your test results and other comments of users, specially breeders. Good luck !

[Herpguy]

Mentat, I definitely agree with your synopsis. They may make them grow faster, but that doesn't mean they're healthier. I'm very familiar with the method to grow tarantulas extremely fast (it works with most invertebrates) and it does cause overall weaker animals to be developed.

My opinion is: if you are feeding your animal a proper diet, you should NEVER have to add external supplementation. As in humans, vitamins and minerals that are not taken in from whole foods do little to help your overall health, they just can't be absorbed very well.
I do not give my animals any form of dusting on their foods, and I have never had a problem with MBD, even with ones raised on invertebrate-only diets.

[GrifTheGreat]

Mentat, I definitely agree with your synopsis. They may make them grow faster, but that doesn't mean they're healthier. I'm very familiar with the method to grow tarantulas extremely fast (it works with most invertebrates) and it does cause overall weaker animals to be developed.i

My opinion is: if you are feeding your animal a proper diet, you should NEVER have to add external supplementation. As in humans, vitamins and minerals that are not taken in from whole foods do little to help your overall health, they just can't be absorbed very well.
I do not give my animals any form of dusting on their foods, and I have never had a problem with MBD, even with ones raised on invertebrate-only diets.

Good genetics play a role in this feeding method as well. Would explain wby no issues have arose.

[Herpguy]

It could, but I have been keeping these frogs for over a decade, and in that time have raised many different species and many fat frogs.