Vet visit

[aegillesp]

So, I had to take my Laputa to the vet today. Got some good advice. I hope my little girl makes it through. The Doc said she had more parasites in her poo than he liked so she got a shot of antibiotics. He also said that she may have metabolic bone disease. Is this fixable? He gave her a shot of calcium too and sent me home with vitamin b3 drips for her since she was hardly eating at all this past month. She went from 7 crickets a day to 2-3 every 3-4 days. Also, I found a little red tiny dot in her back. So, I do have a few questions to see if anyone can help me.

Will she heal from her bone disease?
Should I be worried about the red dot on her back? The doc didn't like it either, which is another reason he gave her the antibiotics.
With B3 drips how long should I expect her to start actually eating?


I'm just worried about her. And also, is there a place here that I can recommend a vet ? This place was incredible and I didn't see it on hardly any sites for reptile vets.

[poison]

MBD if caught in its early stages can be reversed. Or other wise it can only be stopped from progressing. Whope all gos well

[poison]

Btw what kind of frog?

[aegillesp]

How will I know if I caught it early? Will MBD make my frog clumsy? Every time she'd jump she would fall down because she couldn't keep her grip.

She is a green tree frog. I thought she was a white's but she is just a regular cutie

[Sunshine]

Antibiotics will kill parasites? Interesting... If she has parasites you should probably take everything out of her enclosure (plants, food/water bowls, decor etc.) and clean them and the enclosure in a mild bleach solution to kill any parasites that might be on them. Make sure you rinse very well to get all of the bleach off. I would also replace the substrate. I wouldn't want her to get re-infested.

[poison]

Antibiotics will kill parasites? Interesting... If she has parasites you should probably take everything out of her enclosure (plants, food/water bowls, decor etc.) and clean them and the enclosure in a mild bleach solution to kill any parasites that might be on them. Make sure you rinse very well to get all of the bleach off. I would also replace the substrate. I wouldn't want her to get re-infested.

I believe the anitibiotics shot helps the body fight against it but i don't believe it gets rid of them. So that is a little weird.

[Lija]

I believe the antibiotics shot helps the body fight against it but i don't believe it gets rid of them. So that is a little weird.

I'm pretty sure that was not antibiotic but ivermectin that is used for parasitic diseases.

[Lija]

in general parasites should be dealt with before any problems occur, as when you see that frog is sick it may be too late.
in a wild all frogs have parasite load, meaning they have the whole population of different parasites. In a healthy, normal frog in a wild those parasites do not present a problem, because the frog is adapted to them, a frog is compensating parasite infestation.

the problem appears when such a frog is brought in captivity and live in secluded enclosure. The transition process is stressful for a frog, thus its defenses are going down, but worms are still here and present a problem now. For some frogs added stress is not enough to diminish it's adaptability to parasites, thus they're still there but you still see a healthy frog, for now.
as time goes by parasites produce tons of eggs and offsprings, those are keep accumulating in the enclosure and re-infesting a frog until the population of parasites will reach massive amounts that a frog can't adapt to and you will see a sick frog.
that is with wild caught individuals, now imagine such parasites will infest captive bred frog that have zero adaptability....

fenbendazole ( panacur) is known for being relatively safe, accurate dosage is recommended for frogs.

You need to set up a hospital set up, moist papertowels and a cheap hide of some sorts that you can throw out after, paper towels have to be changed every single day, everything that you have in current enclosure you have to bleach out if possible, if not - it should go to the garbage.
hospital set up needs to be completely disinfected after a few days of starting treatment and repeated a few days after the second dose, a fecal exam should be done a week or so after second dose to make sure a frog is parasites free and can be placed in his permanent home.

I just wrote about parasitic diseases in other thread, coping it here you can refer for hospital set up suggestions. Antibiotics are not used to help with immunity, they work only against bacterial infections. if vet gave her a shot of antibiotics it seems to be too aggressive treatment for one "red spot" i would rather treat it with topical antibiotics if swap is positive for bacteria.

MBD - yes progression can be stopped with proper treatment that seems you're getting. not reversible is when you actually see bone deformations and open mouth, in your case it seems she has weak legs only, this can be fixed with luck. the question is on whys, why she got MBD? was it because her food wasn't supplemented or was it because she got supplemented food but couldn't properly absorb it, prognosis will depend on those reasons.
I would add 5.0 UVB if you don't have it already, provided she'll still have somewhere to hide if she chooses to.

[aegillesp]

He gave her a Baytril injection. She goes back in two weeks. She did have her mouth hanging open slightly some times but her legs looked normal. Parts of her underside were a purplish color and had some pretty good size veins going on. She weighed in at 14gm and she is about 2" Im not sure if she lost weight since the beginning of the month, but we'll see if she gains any. I believe She got MBD because part failure on me. I had the 5.0 UVB bulb on the outside of the glass, and my Doc informed me that she wasn't getting anything from it. He told me I needed to have it shine through the top screen but I should have the highest rated bulb, like a Reptisun 10 compact bulb. I may get one anyway. She was also refusing to eat any crickets with the calcium powder. She would spit it out when she could and eventually she gave up eating for a few days. I went to calcium drops for her water dish because I know she mostly sits in it when she could get in there. He said the liquid calcium wasn't doing anything.

He did tell me that I needed to load up my crickets with Calcium since she refuses to eat it if they are covered in it. He told me to get tums and crush them up to help feed the crickets with.

[Heatheranne]

Unfortunately, Baytril is an antibiotic. Baytril treats bacteria. It does not treat parasites. He/she will need a deworming/antiparasitical medication like Panacur.

The reptisun 10 bulb is a strong bulb. It's for desert animals. The 5 is for rainforest or tropical animals. The UVB bulbs are to help in the production of vitamin D3. Vitamin D3 is necessary for the absorption of calcium. It however, does to provide calcium at all. Your frog will still need calcium. Use caution in using a 10.0 with a tropical frog...the 5.0 should be fine if your frog is getting calcium. It is also a warmer bulb and could cause heat burns. The best recommendation would be to use the 5.0 and find a way to get your frog to take the calcium.

Tums...be careful using tums. Tums with added flavors or other additives such as dyes and binders to hold the tablets together in them are not safe for amphibians. Only plain calcium carbonate tums are okay. It is safer to use a properly made amphibian/reptile calcium supplement. Tums are not measured for amphibians in terms of dosing. They also do not crush well to a fine powder as the proper supplements are. I would recommend switching your amphibian/reptile calcium supplement to a different brand. There are several. My frogs seem to prefer Repcal over Flukers, though it may be coincidental. I hear most frogs don't mind the Repashy brand. You'll need to get the calcium in him/her in some way. MBD will only progress without calcium supplementation. Antibiotics and antiparasitics will not stop MBD.

Another thing you can do to assist in raising the amount of calcium your frog gets is to feed your insects safe, calcium sources. Romaine lettuce, kale, carrots, oranges, papaya. Be sure to rinse thoroughly in dechlorinated water prior to serving. Flukers and Repashy also make cricket and insect foods enriched with calcium. Flukers also adds calcium to their water gel. If you make your own water gel, you can use the calcium drops in the dechlorinated water you use to expand the gel.

Keep us posted. I hope your frog improves for you. I would continue the calcium drops in his water until he starts eating the crickets with the supplement. He may absorbing a small amount more than you think. Keep trying.

[aegillesp]

I know that putting a UV light above screen doesn't do much, but I don't want to put it in her terrarium because I have a feeling she would try to cuddle up with it and end up burning herself. The Doc told me to use the tums to feed to the crickets. I didn't think to put it on her food, but thank you for the advice on that. I have the reptocal I think it's called, it's in a blue bottle with a yellow lid. I have repcal without vitamin D3 for my Bearded dragon. Should I pick up the one with D3? He loves the stuff and looks like an addict when he eats it, so maybe it tastes better than what I am giving Laputa? I do feed my crickets the Calcium fortified water gel, but I may mix Tums with their dry food. What about using my Calcium drops directly on the crickets before I feed her? Thank you for all your advice and support through my little girls tough times. She seems stubborn so I have faith she'll pull through!

[Lija]

no, you can put UVB on a screen top. and yes you should have Ca with D3, but no matter what you do, don't overdo it, too much calcium and d3 is as bad.

also you can mix ca supplements with cricket food that you're using.

[aegillesp]

So, I know it's only been a few days, but I've already seen some improvement. I've been feeding her more waxworms than crickets since that is what she seems to be loving to eat. I did get her to eat a waxworm AND a calcium covered cricket that she absolutely tried to spit out a couple of times but managed to swallow it. I haven't seen her on her vine in over a week and I found her here when I put my beardie to bed. She still looks a little blah, and I found that one of her eyes, she kept her eyelid (I think that's what it was, it was clear?) halfway shut. I got her Rep-cal with D3, which she still doesn't like...and I got her a Reptisun 5.0 tropical bulb along with a Moss Mat to help with moisture. I have a Zoo Med Fogger on the way. I can't wait til she gets her appetite back.