Odd White's tree frog behavior?

[Relly]

Hello, I'm new to this forum and joined because I've been noticing my new White's tree frog acting sort of weird, and as I researched common behavior and symptoms I found I was reading a lot of discussions on these forums. So in the end I joined myself to hopefully get some great advice .

I bought my White's tree frog 13 days ago from a local Petco and so far it doesn't seem like he's settling in. The first few days he buried into the substrate and didn't move really at all, which when I looked up sounded common. After a few days of that he started sleeping in his water bowl, staying there all day and as far as I can tell(from a few night checks) most of the night as well. I started worrying when I read this was a common sign of illness. Yesterday he buried himself and seemed groggy and today he soaked all day and as far as I can tell he's only eaten one cricket since I got him(It disappeared so I assume he ate it). I haven't found any waste although I'm not too sure I'd recognize it if I saw it.

To be sure he wasn't sick I gave him a checkup a day or two ago. He stays a medium to dark green, has no odd colored spots and his tummy and legs are normal colored(not red or pink). His eyes seem clear and he hasn't lost any weight(He's kind of pudgy). He put up a good fight while I looked him over, constantly trying to crawl out of my hands but other than when I handled him he's almost never active. He's not showing any other signs of sickness so I'm wondering if it's just stress? I hate to admit I've probably touched him more than I should have(I had a few panic moments when I thought he was dead in the moss) so I'm trying to hang back and just watch him for a while.

As far as his habitat goes I'm not really sure how many gallons it is(I tried reading the label when I bought it but couldn't find the info) but it seems to be 18inches tall and 12inches wide. He's not fully grown yet, he's less than 3 inches himself, and I hope to upgrade to a larger habitat as soon as I can. The lighting and heating is baffling me at the moment. Right now I have a 5.0 UVB reptiglo bulb in a canopy top lamp that is on during the day and a red incandescent bulb in a clamp lamp to heat his tank. I have a dial hydrometer and thermometer(which I'm upgrading very soon, any recommendations would help greatly) but according to those I try keeping it around 50-70% humid and 68-76 degrees F (I think a slightly higher wattage may be better). I use coco shavings as substrate with a little bit of moss around the water dish. He has a leafy fake plant, a log hollow and two branches that reach the top of the tank.

I'm starting to really worry for my little guy, I honestly can't tell if he's healthy or showing signs of illness and I hope someone here with far more experience can steer me in the right direction.

[deranged chipmunk]

if he is burrowing under the substrate, then the humidity may be too low. dump those analog gauges and get a decent digital one. the exoterra (i think) one they sell at petsmart works very well. you will probably be surprised by what your actual reading is.

coco shavings really aren't good for frogs due to it's large size chunks. especially for white's, since they are aggressive feeders and could possibly ingest some, which would be very bad. i would recommend some form of coco fiber. the small dirt like version like plantation soil. also, the forest moss has the same issue. what you can do to keep humidity up without ripping the tank apart is leave the coco husk, add some moss on top of that and then cover it with the plantation soil. leaf litter would also be appreciated by the frogs. this will all help keep the humidity up. also, don't forget to leave yourself a way to remove any excess water from the bottom of the tank.

also, cover 3 sides of the tank to make the frog feel more secure and safe. covering part of the screen top of the enclosure will also help keep humidity in. most importantly, give him/her some time to acclimate. it could take a month or so, depending upon how stressed the frog is. the things i mentioned above will all help to relieve his stress.

you also did not mention whether or not you mist the tank for humidity purposes or not. also, the frog's water bowl should be changed daily with treated water or spring water.

[Relly]

Thanks for your reply I'll look into everything you suggested tomorrow as soon as I get some good down time.

I do mist several times a day with purified spring water(not distilled or tapped) and I clean out his water bowl daily.

[deranged chipmunk]

very good. you are well on your way

[Relly]

Okay I read back over your suggestions now that I'm far more awake xD

How could I remove excess water from the bottom of my tank? And I forgot to mention that I do have three sides of his habitat covered although I did just do it yesterday morning. I'll run by my pet store between classes and look for the exoterra you mentioned. Again thanks for your help I really appreciate it

[deranged chipmunk]

not a problem at all. your best bet for removing excess water is to cut a small piece of sponge, cut a small slit into it and place some aquarium tubing into it. move some substrate and place the sponge with tubing in the hole and cover it back up. when you have excess water in the tank just siphon out the water. leave the tubing in so you can repeat the process. to make it even easier, you can pit a valve at the end (they are about $2). siphon the first time, then close the valve. the next time you need to siphon, just open the valve. do not drain the tank fully if you have the valve, there still needs to be a bit of water or it will break the sipbon and you will end up sucking on the hose again.

[Relly]

So I've had the new thermo/hydrometer and have been maintaining the right humidity and temperature and decided just to keep and eye on him for a while and see if this was the problem, but he still hasn't climbed up anywhere nor has he eaten to my knowledge(Haven't found any waste, but he hasn't lost any weight either). I cleaned out his cage and layer the moss and the coco fiber to keep in humidity, which worked but I think ended up stressing him a lot. He was moving a little bit each day although he basically stayed in the same area and didn't move.

This morning I went over to turn his light on and clean his water dish and he seemed to be sitting on the ground awkwardly, one of his back legs wasn't tucked in like he usually sits. I picked him up gently to check him over again and found these weird white lines a little above where his white stomach turns to green, and on his right back leg there was a spot as well. I know these weren't there before so I'm wondering if he's sick with something? He did still have some energy(He crawled on my arm some, away from his cage) and seemed to be grasping just fine.

[flybyferns]

Hello Relly,
So sorry you may very well have sick frog
When you get a moment read over some of the recent posts in this tree frog section regarding a run on ill whites. Sadly they have been quite sick. So in light of this ..............I would recommend not wasting any time. Get him to a herp. vet. The members who have posted recently have worked tirelessly in efforts to save their frogs. There have been many.

You could email Dr Frye if you do not have a herp vet. Dr Frye's contact info below:
All care is provided via email - medication are mailed to you.
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-prepared.html

In the meantime ( not in place of the vet) you could give him a pedialyte soak...directions in link below:
Try to weigh him ( a weight in grams is needed if your have Dr Frye treat him )

http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-supplies.html

Additional care sheets and review of calcium / vitamin supplements:

Be sure to review all requirements for the right temps. and humidity --- some basics :

http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...caresheet.html

How to Create the Ideal White's Tree Frog Habitat

How to Care for a Whites Tree Frog (with Pictures) - wikiHow

calcium and vitamins
2 brands ------ 3 products: (alternate their use):

1.)
EntirelyPets Discount Pet meds Pet Supplies & Flea Medicine | Entirely Pets

2)
HERPTIVITE Multivitamin for reptiles and amphibians (3.2 oz)

Rep -cal .........company site:
Rep-Cal Supplements

3)
Repashy -superfoods - calcium plus
( this is a combo calcium and vitamis=ns)
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: Calcium Plus :: Calcium Plus 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

Keep us posted
Lynn

[Relly]

I was very afraid of that, my family is having a bit of a rough time and I'm not sure if we could afford sending him to a vet. I've been reading almost all of the white's tree frogs forums and I've heard Dr Frye mentioned many times but I'm not entirely sure on how the system with him works. How would I go about weighing him? I don't believe we own a weight scale currently

I will give him a soak while I do some more research as I do have pedialyte on hand with me.

[Relly]

It seems like all of the closest reptile vets are 30 minutes away, and I'm worried that that would stress him out a lot but without a scale I'm not sure if it's possible to weigh him and then contact Dr Frye. My mom and I are going to get in contact with the vet who does our cat's checkups and see if there's anything she can do to help.

Should I try to set up a vet visit despite the 30 minute drive? Or would that be too much for the frog and I should look for other options?

Also, about the pedi soaking. Should I still do that daily? And for how long?(I've heard different time recommendations).

[Relly]

I've tried looking for both a nearby reptile vet and a place I could go to get him weighed and haven't had any luck. The lines haven't changed at all, his eyes are still clear and no other markings have appeared to indicate illness. He still stays on the ground and seems weak(although he still crawls when I give him a check). I've given him a few 10min pedi soaks in the past week and it does seem to give him a little energy but overall he's still the same.

He has lost weight which is what I'm starting to really worry about, I can see an area where his tummy has sunken in a little(He's still not what I'd call skinny).

Should I grab some reptiboost to give him? I've thought about putting him in a container with a bunch of crickets but I honestly think he'd be too stressed to go for any.

[flybyferns]

Hi Relly,
I'm sorry you having so much trouble.

If or when we use Dr Frye's services, the payment is made via credit card.
There is no fee for an office visit. However, the charge for medication ( if needed) , as you might expect , is built in.
You could speak to Dr F prior to getting the frog's weight.
He may have you measure the frog to estimate the weight.

The time spent driving to the vet is not the issue. It's all the handling - which is very stressful . Plus, it should be a vet that has experience with frogs.
Ask ,first, before you make an appt. Otherwise , email Dr Frye?

The reptiboost and continued pedi soaks are fine.

I would put him in a very simple quarantine/ hospital tank.
A small 5-10 gallon clear glass tank with a secure lid or alarge clear/ plastic critter keeper will work.
Put a thick/very damp/ layer of paper towels on the bottom. Include his soaking dish and a plant or big pc of a plant.
Use de-chlorinated water - ONLY- to dampen the paper towels.
Be sure to keep the temp and humidity w/in the proper ranges.
http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...uarantine.html
Cover the outside ,of three sides, of the tank w/ a towel or brown paper ---this will help him feel more secure. ( it's just temporary).
Keep a day/night cycle. Very , very little light at night! Keep him in a quiet area. Do not handle him unless it is absolutely necessary.
Keep de-chlorinated water - ONLY- in his soaking dish! ( the distilled is ok for misting)
This quarantine tank set up is important for all new frogs.
He may simply need to acclimate to his new surroundings.
Remember----It's very important NOT to touch him unless you have to.

A paper towel bottom will help him to see his food and will help you see the left over food and make sure he is pooping.
Pooping = eating! Poop should be well formed--- diarrhea needs the vets attention.
All remaining crickets should be removed the following day and put back into the cricket bin to feed.

Have you witnessed him eat?

Please post photos if you can
The white lines are normal.
He crawls when you "give him a check" because he is trying to get away!
I know you want him to eat.........but don't put him in a container w/ lots of crickets ( that will stress him out)---- just a few ( dusted crickets ) each night-for now.

The right size cricket......... The size of the crickets should be equal to the space between his eyes.

Lynn

[Relly]

Thank you for taking the time to read over all this and respond, I appreciate it a lot

I will for sure keep all that in mind if I contact Dr Frye, as I think that'd be the easiest for all of us here.

Right now I have one tank, the one he's in, and I was thinking about using paper towels on the bottom so I could be sure when and if I see poop, so I'll know when he's eaten but I didn't want to do anything hasty in case he is just a very stressed frog just getting used to his new surroundings. I'll try to grab some non bleached paper towels at the store tomorrow. Also, right now I have him in my room, I don't really make much noise(no T.V and I keep my earphones on while on the computer) but I was debating moving him upstairs to our empty guest room where there would be even less disturbance.

I do have the sides covered up for his comfort, and monitor the temperature and humidity to keep it in check. I use spring water for spraying and for his water dish and have a uvb 5.0 light bulb on during the day(Because my room stays unusually dim I didn't want to confuse him). The only times I've handled him the past few days was when I was giving him his pedi soaks, and I just glanced at his tummy to make sure the coloring was okay. All the crickets are defiantly within the space between his eyes and are kept dusted.

If it is just stress I'm worried that the pedi soaks(Which he seems to dislike greatly, although it does give him a bit of energy) and the reptaboost would just stress him out more.

The white lines alone didn't seem very unusual it was just he didn't have them when I purchased him so it worried me a bit. I'll grab some of the Reptaboost as soon as I can and try to give him a bit. I do have some pictures(Though not the best of quality) of the lines on his legs. I really do hope they're normal.