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Thread: Diet for the big boys?

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    Member Quijibo's Avatar
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    Default Diet for the big boys?

    As we all know there is an issue of over feeding African Bullfrogs (ABF) that can easily lead to obesity. It’s sadly way too common to see in this hobby and I am looking for someone (I don’t have enough time with the species yet) to put together a clear diet chart. So we can help each other

    Maybe it could be based off the “The Munson Plan”, with the key idea of using something like a weight chart. It would have to use the wide variety of insects, rodents(I know rodents are high fattening, but we all know we do feed ABF a equivalent of a BigMac cheese burger AKA mouse every so often), and poultry.

    I’m sure someone with a lot of knowledge already has something that maybe they could share with this community.



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    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    the diet is simple - nightcrawlers and roaches or crickets, using same 15 min rule as we use for babies, but every 2-3 days, depending on a frog and situation.

    everything else to be used as a treat only.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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    Member Quijibo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lija View Post
    the diet is simple - nightcrawlers and roaches or crickets, using same 15 min rule as we use for babies, but every 2-3 days, depending on a frog and situation.

    everything else to be used as a treat only.
    If people dont have a roach colony going im guessing Nightcrawlers are pretty much the best staple diet then?

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    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    yes. you can substitute roaches with a crickets - for a big guy to catch a lot of crickets is quite a workout.
    it is actually pretty funny how they eating crickets, they look so tiny in comparison to a frog, but a frog is going after them anyway, sometimes catching 2 at a time
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  6. #5
    FLUXCORE
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    My frogs diet consists of mostly hornworms, low in fat, high in protein and good water content. Ill add some crickets and superworms for a little roughage

  7. #6
    demon amphibians
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Hissing roaches are the perfect size for a large pixie. One of them can easily weigh as much as a mouse. Slower and less work then crickets which also don't hold a candle to the nutritional value of a roach. Hornworms are great however they are hard to find and expensive. Night crawlers are also a great meal but there slime will collect large amounts of substrate which can cause impaction. Best to feed them is with tongs.

  8. #7
    Herpguy
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Contrary to popular belief, high protein is NOT what you look for in a frog diet. Excess protein is what causes the obesity issues. It is extremely hard for frogs to get obese on invertebrate/herp diets. If you have access to a pond or stream, I would recommend a minnow trap and/or "bug napper." I used to feed my frogs nearly 100% wild caught diets, and I had growth and feeding responses you would never believe, and I never ever supplemented (I am highly skeptical of a calcium fairy existing in Africa). Many people are against this and too worried about pesticides and such, but I guarantee they have never tried it themselves. Just my two cents.

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Herpguy View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, high protein is NOT what you look for in a frog diet. Excess protein is what causes the obesity issues. It is extremely hard for frogs to get obese on invertebrate/herp diets. If you have access to a pond or stream, I would recommend a minnow trap and/or "bug napper." I used to feed my frogs nearly 100% wild caught diets, and I had growth and feeding responses you would never believe, and I never ever supplemented (I am highly skeptical of a calcium fairy existing in Africa). Many people are against this and too worried about pesticides and such, but I guarantee they have never tried it themselves. Just my two cents.
    There are always precautions to take when feeding WC prey. Like collecting from areas where no pesticides are sprayed. Parasites are always in WC prey, but of course even the CB prey can catch parasites and disease. There is no way to 100% stop parasites, but you can do your best to prevent it. I do believe that there are nutrients and certain other nutritional values found in WC prey that you may not ever see in CB prey, but sometimes its risky. I don't offer WC prey just because its not something I want to risk.

    I had one of my frogs catch pinworms from crickets I purchased before. Like I said though its never 100% stoppable.


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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quijibo View Post
    As we all know there is an issue of over feeding African Bullfrogs (ABF) that can easily lead to obesity. It’s sadly way too common to see in this hobby and I am looking for someone (I don’t have enough time with the species yet) to put together a clear diet chart. So we can help each other

    Maybe it could be based off the “The Munson Plan”, with the key idea of using something like a weight chart. It would have to use the wide variety of insects, rodents(I know rodents are high fattening, but we all know we do feed ABF a equivalent of a BigMac cheese burger AKA mouse every so often), and poultry.

    I’m sure someone with a lot of knowledge already has something that maybe they could share with this community.


    Just offer a variety or prey items and your frog will grow rapidly and healthily. Be sure to not have large climate fluctuations or anything tbat may stress the frog too much.


  11. #10
    FLUXCORE
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Only issue I have with wild caught food items is the chance of transmitting parasites, a simple parasite that doesn't bother frogs and such around here (due to built up immunity) could very easily kill a frog from other parts of the world. Also MBD is a real concern with most captive amphibians so dusting with calcium doesn't hurt and if anything helps the frog, who knows it might be the sun that provides the calcium. It's almost always going to be the frogs genetics that decide how big it's going to get and although diet can speed it up a bit it's DNA will decide when it's time to stop growing.

  12. #11
    Herpguy
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    The biggest thing is to maintain your frog at a high temperature, especially if offering WC prey. I have never had a frog get sick from WC prey, but it is a precaution. Most anuran diseases die off at above 80 degrees, and their immune systems perform better at higher temps.

  13. #12
    Eridu Serpent
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    I feed my ABs on the same as I fed my Cane toads, a good mixed diet of insects. I disagree with feeding them mice and rats because
    of the trouble it can make for their liver etc. As you said it is like feeding them junk food, so I just do not do it.
    It upsets me to see so many idiots putting videos of them up feeding them live mice and rats.
    Many of the frogs look obese and overly stretched, they have lost there patterning and texture, they just look like bloated balloons.
    Not only that live food bites and can cause damage to the frogs mouth and on the way down, not worth it if you love your pet.
    I set up an earth worm farm, tiger worms ended up being better than bog standard worms. They breed faster and are sturdier, they do not break in half
    when trying to feed the frogs.
    I also have a Dubia roach breeding box, King worms and Garden Snails.
    I have had NO luck with breeding Locusts, I am going to try again soon...also with Honey worms.
    Last month I purchased 20 Madagascan Hissing Roaches (5 male 15 female)...but it was so tempting to feed Goober with some, so I have only 10 females now.
    He loves them and they grow pretty large as you know. They normally cost around $4 each which is an expensive treat, so I thought breeding them is a better idea.
    The thing is my Goober has become a spoilt brat, he used to love earthworms, then he refused to eat them. So I tried feeding him them with the earth still on them, he
    ate them for a day or two then refused again. ALL he would eat was king worms which are way too rich for everyday feeding. Then he did the same with snails!
    But then I got some Dubias and he is mad
    on them now, refuses to eat anything else. I tried the old cruel to be kind thing, leaving him unfed until he gave in and ate something else. BUT he never gave in I did !!

    He went 10 days turning his nose up at earth worms, crickets, king worms...just wanted roaches.
    So that is what he has for now...Dubias.
    Madagascans if and when they breed!
    Pablo Pickle will eat anything you give, so the other stuff is not going to waste

    I feed all the insects/worms on organic veg/fruit/oats/dry dog food and Calcium powder.
    So I think my frogs eat well, indeed better than I do, I spend more on them than on myself
    I live in Southern Spain, so if the weather is too hot or too cold no dealer will deliver live food because it dies.
    I did not want to end up in a situation where I´d run out of food for my pets, so I started to breed some myself.

    MAYBE at xmas or on their birthday I might give them a pinkie as a treat.

    Anyway sorry for the long post, this is what I feed mine on.

    Name:  Goober103.jpg
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    Goober (5mths) and little Pablo Pickle (4mths)

  14. #13
    Member Quijibo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    I completely understand breeding your own prey items for your reptiles/amphibians. I currently only breed dubia’s, but that is about to change since I started to breed crested/leopard geckos. I have too many mouths to feed, and it gets costly. The cresties don’t get insects too often since I keep them on Crested Gecko Diet, but they do get their treats.

    I’ve been considering breeding worms and was wondering how you got your setup for your tiger worms? Would you mind posting some pictures and a brief summary of your methods? Of course I have looked up breeding tips on Google but I love hearing from people, not just reading a web page. I think it would be helpful if you posted a small form in the food section on how you breed your tiger worms. Let me know if you do, would love to see some pictures of your tubs to get an idea.
    _________________________________________________
    I would rather die for something, then to die for nothing......
    _________________________________________________

    3.0.0 Giant African Bullfrogs
    4.4.4 Crested Geckos
    1.4.5 Leopard Geckos
    0.1.0 Mourning Geckos
    0.0.1 Emperor Scorpion
    0.0.1 Vietnamese Centipede
    1.0.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
    1.0.0 Mini Rex Rabbit
    1.0.0 My buddy(cooper the Olde English Bulldogge)
    0.1.0 Cage Mate (the wife)
    1.2.0 My Offspring( the kids)
    1k+ Dubia Roach colony

  15. #14
    Eridu Serpent
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quijibo View Post
    I completely understand breeding your own prey items for your reptiles/amphibians. I currently only breed dubia’s, but that is about to change since I started to breed crested/leopard geckos. I have too many mouths to feed, and it gets costly. The cresties don’t get insects too often since I keep them on Crested Gecko Diet, but they do get their treats.

    I’ve been considering breeding worms and was wondering how you got your setup for your tiger worms? Would you mind posting some pictures and a brief summary of your methods? Of course I have looked up breeding tips on Google but I love hearing from people, not just reading a web page. I think it would be helpful if you posted a small form in the food section on how you breed your tiger worms. Let me know if you do, would love to see some pictures of your tubs to get an idea.
    Hi there really is no point in me posting photos, my laptop webcam sucks. I was only able to take photos of my frogs when I borrowed some ones phone
    Anyway this is how I breed mine:

    I have a large 2ft x 1.5 ft plastic container (I think in the USA they are called Rubbermaid tubs RUBs).
    I made air holes in the top 2 inches all the way around the top...then made some all over the bottom for drainage.
    You us the lid a a catch tray under the tank for any liquids that may come out (mine never has any though).
    I purchased 10kg of worm substrate from a dealer here which with delivery cost me 40 euros.
    It had adults, sub adults and tiny babies in it.
    I stuck it in the box with some very good peat, I added 1/2 pint of filtered water all over it.
    Added mixed lettuce, chopped carrot, cucumber, apple, and what ever else I can get for free from the
    local man in the village. He grows lovely fruit and veg and gives me anything he does not sell.
    If not I buy it in if he has had a busy week.
    All I do is add a handful of dry dog food now and then, keep the soil moist but not wet, I add calcium powder every week.
    Keep turning the soil over so the new food on top gets eaten.
    In no time I had loads of worms.

    In the UK I had a setup in my kitchen as a composter/eco thing.
    Tiger worms are far more better for breeding...I used a huge black plastic garbage bin then.
    Did basically the same.

    So it is easy.
    I have learnt the following though:
    Potato is no good as it sends shoots up and does not rot down very fast, bread can produce to much mould
    and a beer smell. Too much fruit attracts fruit flies.
    So just balance the mix and you should have NO SMELL other than soil.
    I was also told that they like poop, but I have not added any to mine due to feeding pets with the worms.
    You could introduce parasites which is not a good idea.

    If you do not want to buy 10kg of wormy soil...just buy a load of tiger worms, do the same thing and in 3 months you will
    have loads of babies. My tank is in a fairly cold place (around 40´degrees) and they still breed, I assume the composted soil
    keeps them warm enough.

    Here is a list you can add to your bin:
    ANYTHING ORGANIC

    Just do not add poop I really feel that is wrong unless you are just using your worms as a way to get rid of garbage.
    people add coffee grounds, tea bags...again I do not do this. I want to keep my bin so it remains a certain size, not filled
    to the top with extra waste, so I just limit the amount and the quality of what goes in.
    Remember to not just feed all the adults to your pets, leave some to breed for the first or second breeding.
    They will live a few years, breed heaps of times.
    Snail breeding is basically the same but add more calcium or a chunk of dry cuttle fish, 4 inches of moist soil and instead use the lid as the lid, add a lot of air holes.


  16. #15
    Member Quijibo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Thanks for the great info. I love it when people from different area's around the world can work together and share ideas/knowledge.
    _________________________________________________
    I would rather die for something, then to die for nothing......
    _________________________________________________

    3.0.0 Giant African Bullfrogs
    4.4.4 Crested Geckos
    1.4.5 Leopard Geckos
    0.1.0 Mourning Geckos
    0.0.1 Emperor Scorpion
    0.0.1 Vietnamese Centipede
    1.0.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
    1.0.0 Mini Rex Rabbit
    1.0.0 My buddy(cooper the Olde English Bulldogge)
    0.1.0 Cage Mate (the wife)
    1.2.0 My Offspring( the kids)
    1k+ Dubia Roach colony

  17. #16
    Eridu Serpent
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quijibo View Post
    Thanks for the great info. I love it when people from different area's around the world can work together and share ideas/knowledge.
    You are welcome, that is what a forum is for...sharing information, helping with advice and supporting one another.
    I came here because I´d kept toads and others frogs, never had a AB before and I thought it would be better to find out if there
    is anything else I needed to know. You never stop learning though and anyone who thinks they know it all, needs to think again

    You should have no problems with an earthworm farm, they are pretty easy.
    I´m having trouble getting my Madagascan roaches to breed, so once I sort that out I will be happy

  18. #17
    annawolv1010
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Are red wiglers fine to feed babies?

  19. #18
    jelkins
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    If you have a reliable souce for wild caught food and feel comfortable with it then I'd suggest doing so...After mine reached a certain size, crickets and nightcrawlers were more of a pain in the *** than wild caught food. Remember in the wild these frogs, as well as similar species, have a diet that consist of up to 70% other anurans. Mine has done just fine on a diet of wild-caught crayfish and frogs; it's growth seems to mirror this.

  20. #19
    Eridu Serpent
    Guest

    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelkins View Post
    If you have a reliable souce for wild caught food and feel comfortable with it then I'd suggest doing so...After mine reached a certain size, crickets and nightcrawlers were more of a pain in the *** than wild caught food. Remember in the wild these frogs, as well as similar species, have a diet that consist of up to 70% other anurans. Mine has done just fine on a diet of wild-caught crayfish and frogs; it's growth seems to mirror this.
    The thing is it depends where one lives, if you are surrounded by farm land you could be feeding toxins to your pets.
    Also some very bad diseases are killing off frog populations and more mutations are being found.
    Water sources are not always pollutant free, so personally I do not consider it worth the risk.
    I love my animals too much to put their lives at risk, at least if you buy specially bred insects you can say 99% of the time
    it is safe. If you breed your own you can say it is 100% risk free.
    Above all else not everyone has a local stream, river or pond, catching live food is time consuming.
    Personally I feel that feeding ABs on on wild caught food would not increase their growth, as long as each frog has ample amounts
    of food, a healthy diet, I don´t see how it being wild caught would make a difference. All you would be doing is chancing your frogs health
    by introducing it to more parasites, toxins and disease.

  21. #20
    jelkins
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    Default Re: Diet for the big boys?

    Feeding these frogs wild caught food doesn't ensure a difference in size but certainly offers a wider range of options that mirror their natural diets. Additionally, there is absolutely no garantee that captive bred foods are parasite free whether you're breeding them yourself or buying them from someone. Unless you're studying captive bred foods under a mircoscope for parasites, no one can garantee this. Parasites are common in almost all amphibians in captivity and in the wild. What typically makes them an issue is poor husbandry leading to health issues where the captive animal isn't able to deal with the parasite load and additional stress. I've had mine for over 5 years and had no issues whatsoever.

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