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Thread: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

  1. #1
    Gentlemangorath
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    Default Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    So despite having replaced my Grays with Greens upon their passing (they were my first frogs, and I loved those little guys), I still really want to have Gray Tree Frogs again, to have Grays and Greens at the same time. I was thinking of obtaining them the same way as my first two, from my backyard when they come to congregate/mate around the pool in the summer, but now that I've heard moral arguments against it, I do feel bad about it. I was considering ordering, but the only site I could find them on were sold out, and while I would pay the shipping for overnight because it's 100% understandable to only ship them for one day, I don't want to pay that for Gray, I was really only considering ordering in the future, should I ever get Dart Frogs. So would it be that bad of an idea to take one from the backyard? I was also considering getting into breeding, perhaps getting a larger tank for the Grays (as opposed to the 12x12x18 Exo-terra I have now for my two Greens). That may be a poor idea though if I don't know what I'm doing...

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  3. #2
    Member sschind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    There is absolutely no reason to consider buying a gray tree frog over catching one in your back yard. I would say 100% of them available are WC but they say nothing is 100% so 99.9% of them are WC. Do yourself and your next frog a favor, catch one from your back yard and save it the stress of shipping.

    My personal opinion is that you should not feel guilty about taking a couple of grays from the wild either. These are not an endangered species and they adapt very well to captivity. I'm sure there will be a few opposing viewpoints and in general I am opposed to WC but that is more on the commercial side. It would be a very very rare occurance for an individual taking a few specimens of such a common species to have any negative effect on their population. If you prefer gray tree frogs by all means get them.

    As for breeding them I would say good for you. Don't plan on doing it for the money though. Very few people are willing to make the effort because they can't make money on them. Did I mention you probably won't make money on them. Very few dealers and few consumers are willing pay extra for a CBB gray tree frog baby when WC adults are available so cheaply or for free. If I could legally sell them I would consider a small premium over WCs (same for greens or barkers or anoles) but not much because I would have to convince my customers why spending say $8.99 or $9.99 for a small baby, even if it is captive bred, is better than getting an adult for $5.99 or $6.99 and I know it would not be easy. The way it is now I don't offer any of those species because no one breeds them and I don't deal with WC.

    If you try your hand at raising them you may find yourself stuck with hundreds of froglets you don't know what to do with. I suppose, depending on the legality of it, you could always let them go but I know here in Wisconsin it is illegal to release specimens into the wild.

    I do appreciate your concerns about the whole WC issue but as far as I am concerned you need not beat yourself up over it. The fact that you are concerned tells me that you would not abuse the situation. Take a few grays and enjoy them. They are my favorite frog.
    Steve Schindler

  4. #3
    Gentlemangorath
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Well I wasn't planning on selling unless someone happened to be interested in some awesome little guys (I agree, these guys may have seemed dull "gray" at first, but they've got such personality!), but that is a good point about the number of offspring they have... I just figured I'd breed some healthy captive bred frogs or something, from maybe 3 or 4 frogs (2 males, 1-2 females?), but I could still get a heck of a lot more frogs than I could need, when I only want maybe 6 (at most, to have a nice Gray Tree Frog colony). It was also because I kind of want to immerse myself more in frogs, and learn their breeding behaviors and the like. But if I wind up with 50-100 eggs from one frog, that is too much for me to handle >_>. I suppose if I were to take them in a tadpole stage and raised them up from there, they still would be considered WC obviously, huh? I mean as you said, it's not too much of a problem if its WC, but I dunno, the thought of having a CB frog is nice for some unknown reason. But then I'd also probably need a third tank for breeding wouldn't I? As a matter of fact, if anyone knows of a breeding guide for these guys, I'd love to see it so I'd have an idea what I'd be getting myself into.

  5. #4
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Hi,
    I am typically, personally, and totally against taking an animal ,of any kind, from its natural habitat.
    This is intelligent conversation, however.
    This is not like me - at all - BUT- I have to sympathize with both of your thoughts.

    I'm really tying to be objective about taking the grays. ( I'm a sucker for them as well - they are precious ! )
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  6. #5
    Gentlemangorath
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Well I do want captive bred Grays, but at the same time they are right there and sschind is right that they are very abundant. Plus I do kind of want to try my hand at breeding little guys like mentioned (it would be a nice biology project for myself too, observing breeding patterns and development cycles of growing frogs), plus I just realized, maybe people here might want to take them for free if they don't mind paying the shipping cost for overnight delivery. That would be a nice way to deal with the excess offspring I wouldn't be able to take care of, plus get people some nice, nearly free (minus the shipping cost) Grays. And yeah, these guys are awesome, mine were soooooo very very very outgoing. I loved how Abel used to actually try to catch water when I misted the tank. I hear talk of most frogs turning their back/trying to avoid misting, but not Abel. He would open his mouth, stick out his tongue, and act like he was trying to catch M&M's in his mouth. Awesome little guys .

  7. #6

    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentlemangorath View Post
    I suppose if I were to take them in a tadpole stage and raised them up from there, they still would be considered WC obviously, huh?
    Yes, but the younger the frogs you collect the smaller the impact on the wild population so tadpoles as you suggest would be better than adults. I remember reading something like 1 to 2 % of eggs laid make it to the froglet stage. They are made to be expendable and pulling out a dozen of the 2000 eggs a female can lay in one sitting won't do any harm to the wild populations.

    Be sure to check local laws about collecting, breeding, and selling (or even giving away). It will vary from place to place.

    Breeding is covered in Frog Forum - Gray Tree Frog Care and Breeding

    You can immerse yourself in the life cycle of these frogs with a flashlight and a willingness to get wet with no worry about what to do with 100's of froglets in your care. No doubt there is much to be learned from captive specimens, but observing them in their native habitat is very educational as well and in my opinion is a great help in their captive care.

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member kueluck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    I'm one who does not agree with taking breeding adults out of the wild. The decline in amphibians is bad enough so instead of taking away, why not put back. Easy solution to this. Wait until they breed, collect some tads, raise them to froglet stag, keep a few and release the other back where you collected the eggs. I did this 2 years ago and had a blast doing so. Collected 50 tads, 3 did not make it to froglet stage, kept 3,
    released the rest. I had 3 Cope's but released them back into the wild last year. They did not do well in captivity, always pushing up on top of viv wanting out. Now my neighbor, her Cope's seem to love the captive lifestyle, so I go over there to get my fix. And now we do hear the Cope's calling in the evening. You didn't hear that a few years ago.
    Rest in peace Rosie 5-31-12
    Rest in peace Rufus 2-7-14
    Rest in peace Morph 8-14-15


  9. #8
    Gentlemangorath
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    @Brian I just finished lightly reading the notes on tadpole/froglet raising, and it may be a bit of a project I'll have to find the time for before I actually breed them, but I do like the idea of catching the tadpoles and raising them to froglets/frogs. What about raising them frog froglets as well, since that won't be taking them from the adult male frog population, is that an ok idea?. My suburban hometown in southernish NY is rife with Grays who like to lay eggs in pools from what I understand, and as you may have read in a different post, I try to transfer as many tadpoles as I can with water from the pool before it gets treated, so they grow in what they were adjusted to I guess (correct me if there's anything I can do to improve this btw). As for observing them in the wild, as I live in a suburb, there isn't quite a specific area I know they're in, they're just sort of in and out of habitat fragments (unfortunate but meh, what can be done). After doing the transfer of tadpoles for two years, my girlfriend actually would insist that we go out and see them when we could hear them congregated around the pool in the backyard, and it was quite enjoyable even if it wasn't very detailed.

    @Gail Raising the eggs to froglets and releasing them also sounds a really good idea, but releasing them back where I found them is not (that being a pool :P). I would have to figure out if there's a local woody area/lake I could release them in, which I can actually think of one maybe. Perhaps I can go out there sometime when I think the frogs are calling to see what I can find. Thank you for the ideas and advice.

  10. #9
    DeltaElite121
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Quote Originally Posted by flybyferns View Post
    Hi,
    I am typically, personally, and totally against taking an animal ,of any kind, from its natural habitat.
    This is intelligent conversation, however.
    This is not like me - at all - BUT- I have to sympathize with both of your thoughts.

    I'm really tying to be objective about taking the grays. ( I'm a sucker for them as well - they are precious ! )
    Lynn
    Not to single you out (so don't take it that way), but just remember - you wouldn't have this hobby available to you if animals weren't removed from their natural environment.

    I considered buying some gray's because I can't find any here. At one point it was potentially possible, but construction has destroyed the environment around me. I had one before and it was a very good frog with lots of personality to it.

  11. #10
    100+ Post Member kueluck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    If you can find some froglets go for it!! Chances are they won't make it to adulthood anyway. I just hate to see people taking breeding adults since they are the minority to survive to that point.
    Rest in peace Rosie 5-31-12
    Rest in peace Rufus 2-7-14
    Rest in peace Morph 8-14-15


  12. #11
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Hi,
    I understand this concept we are confronted within our hobby.
    I don't feel singled out , so.... not to worry.....and thank you for the kind consternation for that.
    This is great conversation.

    Sharing---
    I grew up - every summer - in the Catskills (NY)- many years !
    I used to beg and beg to take the frogs home to Long Island. The native frogs in the area were so plentiful - it would make your head spin. I was never allowed. I was allowed to catch them - but NEVER allow to keep them.

    In the spring , gray and green tree frogs were on every tree trunk near a natural bog type area on our property. Eastern spadefoot , fowler's toads, mink frogs, wood frogs, northern leopards, and pickerels were everywhere! There is nothing more exciting then to find a gray tree frog- froglet disguised on a tree trunk. They were precious! Just think... less than 1/2 " in length! As a child they were the size of my thumbnail. We used to see bull frogs as big as dinner plates basking in the sun. The spotted salamanders were so plentiful we would have to be careful not to step on them.

    Sadly, 30+ years later; they are not there like they were. I have to search, and I mean search...to find many of the species I use to easily find.

    Now, when I am lucky enough to come across any of them -- my personal choice is to leave them be. Pretty simple.
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  13. #12
    Gentlemangorath
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Quote Originally Posted by kueluck View Post
    If you can find some froglets go for it!! Chances are they won't make it to adulthood anyway. I just hate to see people taking breeding adults since they are the minority to survive to that point.
    After removing the tadpoles from the pool and transferring them to the smaller kiddy pool to develop, my girlfriend and I were often find froglets on the sides of the kiddy pool/swimming through the water, so it'll probably be easy to find some froglets, provided that those little guys decide to come back again this year. I think maybe I should take three-four, and hope that there's a decent ratio of male to female, should I ever decide I might be ready to try breeding them. Sounds like a reasonable idea?

  14. #13
    DeltaElite121
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    Lynn, it is the same in my neighborhood. I used to catch toads out here when I was 13 years old (about 13 years ago now). There would be SO MANY toads that at night, the streets would be literally littered with them. They'd come sit out on the pavement when it's still warm and eat insects around people's neighborhoods. I want to say I saw on average 5 toads for every 50 feet.. and these were the ones I wasn't actively looking for that were just sitting in plain view. There was always a ton more crawling through people's yards searching for food. The last time I saw a toad was 4 years ago, and I accidentally stumbled upon it when I saw odd movement in someone's yard. It actually made me very sad seeing it, because I knew that's the last time I'd most likely see one for many, many more years. Haven't seen one since then.

    I understand what you mean, and I agree with it. It seems like our experiences are very similar, and once the damage to the ecosystem is done, it's usually too late for us to repair it.

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

    I have to agree about not taking breeding age adults, they seldom adjust to captivity anyways. I have a female eastern I found on the road as a still bright green froglet. She still had a bit of a tail so I know she was very young, and showed no fear of humans. Being a high traffic night and drizzling, I wagered it a safe bet she would wind up roadkill. And I had a small set up from a male gray I had kept through it's natural life (r.i.p. Frodo), brought her home and she started eating later the first night. Now not so little Fiona is as tame and friendly as they come, she will pace on the front doors asking to come out, perch on my hand and snuggle right in, take a nap for as long as I allow her. (I wash my hands well in basic Dawn, rinsing with hot water, but still don't like to handle for too long as the oils and salt will replace itself on my skin) She will sit on a small glass hex bowl I have on my desk all day with me watching the computer screen, or just chilling while she watches me.
    Grays have wonderful personalities, and can become very tame, but collect a few eggs in the spring, tadpoles or a young froglet, it will be worth the work of finding them. As they never know what they are missing, ignorance does seem to be bliss, they'll settle better to captive life if they don't know the difference.

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