Wild Caught Gray Tree Frogs? Breeding them for Captive Bred?

[Gentlemangorath]

So despite having replaced my Grays with Greens upon their passing (they were my first frogs, and I loved those little guys), I still really want to have Gray Tree Frogs again, to have Grays and Greens at the same time. I was thinking of obtaining them the same way as my first two, from my backyard when they come to congregate/mate around the pool in the summer, but now that I've heard moral arguments against it, I do feel bad about it. I was considering ordering, but the only site I could find them on were sold out, and while I would pay the shipping for overnight because it's 100% understandable to only ship them for one day, I don't want to pay that for Gray, I was really only considering ordering in the future, should I ever get Dart Frogs. So would it be that bad of an idea to take one from the backyard? I was also considering getting into breeding, perhaps getting a larger tank for the Grays (as opposed to the 12x12x18 Exo-terra I have now for my two Greens). That may be a poor idea though if I don't know what I'm doing...

[sschind]

There is absolutely no reason to consider buying a gray tree frog over catching one in your back yard. I would say 100% of them available are WC but they say nothing is 100% so 99.9% of them are WC. Do yourself and your next frog a favor, catch one from your back yard and save it the stress of shipping.

My personal opinion is that you should not feel guilty about taking a couple of grays from the wild either. These are not an endangered species and they adapt very well to captivity. I'm sure there will be a few opposing viewpoints and in general I am opposed to WC but that is more on the commercial side. It would be a very very rare occurance for an individual taking a few specimens of such a common species to have any negative effect on their population. If you prefer gray tree frogs by all means get them.

As for breeding them I would say good for you. Don't plan on doing it for the money though. Very few people are willing to make the effort because they can't make money on them. Did I mention you probably won't make money on them. Very few dealers and few consumers are willing pay extra for a CBB gray tree frog baby when WC adults are available so cheaply or for free. If I could legally sell them I would consider a small premium over WCs (same for greens or barkers or anoles) but not much because I would have to convince my customers why spending say $8.99 or $9.99 for a small baby, even if it is captive bred, is better than getting an adult for $5.99 or $6.99 and I know it would not be easy. The way it is now I don't offer any of those species because no one breeds them and I don't deal with WC.

If you try your hand at raising them you may find yourself stuck with hundreds of froglets you don't know what to do with. I suppose, depending on the legality of it, you could always let them go but I know here in Wisconsin it is illegal to release specimens into the wild.

I do appreciate your concerns about the whole WC issue but as far as I am concerned you need not beat yourself up over it. The fact that you are concerned tells me that you would not abuse the situation. Take a few grays and enjoy them. They are my favorite frog.

[Gentlemangorath]

Well I wasn't planning on selling unless someone happened to be interested in some awesome little guys (I agree, these guys may have seemed dull "gray" at first, but they've got such personality!), but that is a good point about the number of offspring they have... I just figured I'd breed some healthy captive bred frogs or something, from maybe 3 or 4 frogs (2 males, 1-2 females?), but I could still get a heck of a lot more frogs than I could need, when I only want maybe 6 (at most, to have a nice Gray Tree Frog colony). It was also because I kind of want to immerse myself more in frogs, and learn their breeding behaviors and the like. But if I wind up with 50-100 eggs from one frog, that is too much for me to handle >_>. I suppose if I were to take them in a tadpole stage and raised them up from there, they still would be considered WC obviously, huh? I mean as you said, it's not too much of a problem if its WC, but I dunno, the thought of having a CB frog is nice for some unknown reason. But then I'd also probably need a third tank for breeding wouldn't I? As a matter of fact, if anyone knows of a breeding guide for these guys, I'd love to see it so I'd have an idea what I'd be getting myself into.

[flybyferns]

Hi,
I am typically, personally, and totally against taking an animal ,of any kind, from its natural habitat.
This is intelligent conversation, however.
This is not like me - at all - BUT- I have to sympathize with both of your thoughts.

I'm really tying to be objective about taking the grays. ( I'm a sucker for them as well - they are precious ! )
Lynn

[Gentlemangorath]

Well I do want captive bred Grays, but at the same time they are right there and sschind is right that they are very abundant. Plus I do kind of want to try my hand at breeding little guys like mentioned (it would be a nice biology project for myself too, observing breeding patterns and development cycles of growing frogs), plus I just realized, maybe people here might want to take them for free if they don't mind paying the shipping cost for overnight delivery. That would be a nice way to deal with the excess offspring I wouldn't be able to take care of, plus get people some nice, nearly free (minus the shipping cost) Grays. And yeah, these guys are awesome, mine were soooooo very very very outgoing. I loved how Abel used to actually try to catch water when I misted the tank. I hear talk of most frogs turning their back/trying to avoid misting, but not Abel. He would open his mouth, stick out his tongue, and act like he was trying to catch M&M's in his mouth. Awesome little guys .

[UncleChester]

I suppose if I were to take them in a tadpole stage and raised them up from there, they still would be considered WC obviously, huh?

Yes, but the younger the frogs you collect the smaller the impact on the wild population so tadpoles as you suggest would be better than adults. I remember reading something like 1 to 2 % of eggs laid make it to the froglet stage. They are made to be expendable and pulling out a dozen of the 2000 eggs a female can lay in one sitting won't do any harm to the wild populations.

Be sure to check local laws about collecting, breeding, and selling (or even giving away). It will vary from place to place.

Breeding is covered in Frog Forum - Gray Tree Frog Care and Breeding

You can immerse yourself in the life cycle of these frogs with a flashlight and a willingness to get wet with no worry about what to do with 100's of froglets in your care. No doubt there is much to be learned from captive specimens, but observing them in their native habitat is very educational as well and in my opinion is a great help in their captive care.

[DeltaElite121]

Hi,
I am typically, personally, and totally against taking an animal ,of any kind, from its natural habitat.
This is intelligent conversation, however.
This is not like me - at all - BUT- I have to sympathize with both of your thoughts.

I'm really tying to be objective about taking the grays. ( I'm a sucker for them as well - they are precious ! )
Lynn

Not to single you out (so don't take it that way), but just remember - you wouldn't have this hobby available to you if animals weren't removed from their natural environment.

I considered buying some gray's because I can't find any here. At one point it was potentially possible, but construction has destroyed the environment around me. I had one before and it was a very good frog with lots of personality to it.

[kueluck]

If you can find some froglets go for it!! Chances are they won't make it to adulthood anyway. I just hate to see people taking breeding adults since they are the minority to survive to that point.

[flybyferns]

Hi,
I understand this concept we are confronted within our hobby.
I don't feel singled out , so.... not to worry.....and thank you for the kind consternation for that.
This is great conversation.

Sharing---
I grew up - every summer - in the Catskills (NY)- many years !
I used to beg and beg to take the frogs home to Long Island. The native frogs in the area were so plentiful - it would make your head spin. I was never allowed. I was allowed to catch them - but NEVER allow to keep them.

In the spring , gray and green tree frogs were on every tree trunk near a natural bog type area on our property. Eastern spadefoot , fowler's toads, mink frogs, wood frogs, northern leopards, and pickerels were everywhere! There is nothing more exciting then to find a gray tree frog- froglet disguised on a tree trunk. They were precious! Just think... less than 1/2 " in length! As a child they were the size of my thumbnail. We used to see bull frogs as big as dinner plates basking in the sun. The spotted salamanders were so plentiful we would have to be careful not to step on them.

Sadly, 30+ years later; they are not there like they were. I have to search, and I mean search...to find many of the species I use to easily find.

Now, when I am lucky enough to come across any of them -- my personal choice is to leave them be. Pretty simple.
Lynn