First Pacman - Need Help ASAP!

[Starlitrain]

So here's the story. I have been going into my local Petsmart for the past 6 months or so. From day one they had this cute tiny little Pacman frog. Every week I went into that store they still had the same one housed in a tiny plastic cricket keeper that was placed in the same enclosure that also housed a couple of tree frogs and several Anoles or similar lizard (depending on what was new that month). Yesterday I went in again to grab some crickets and there he was still! And this time they had no less than 15 lizards and one lonely tree frog in the enclosure with him...

Well I got sick of seeing him in those conditions so I talked to the manager and brought him home.
Now, I know a bit about these guys, but I'd like to hear more suggestions and explanations on how to keep this guy happy.

I currently have him set up in a 5.5 gallon terrarium with 2-3 inches of Eco Earth substrate moistened, but not dripping wet. There's a water dish filled very slightly in case he needs it. I also have three of those Mondo Grass Plants in there that I took out of my Fire-Bellied Toads enclosure to provide him with some temporary cover for now. I have a simple black light that is providing just enough heat to get by for today. I did feed him some crickets last night and he actually hopped around to catch them.

What I need to know specifically is:
1) What sort of heating/lighting is best? I prefer an overhead heating method so I can set him up next to my Jungle Carpet Python and hook him up with the Herpstat to regulate the amount of heat he gets.
2) What sort of substrate can I use (other than Eco Earth)? I know how great Eco Earth is for him, but I'd like to keep some live plants in with him until he is big enough to destroy them. I understand uprooting issues as well, but he hasn't uprooted anything as of yet & he's dug himself completely under the substrate right now. If that became an issue, I wouldn't mind potting the plants so he could still have natural plants - I'm not a big fan of the artificial plants.
3) This one concerns me. With him being somewhere between 6-8 months old, I believe his growth has been stunted. He is roughly only 1.5-2" long and not very wide...from reading around on the forum, he/she should be much larger than that by now. Is there anyway to "catch up" on his growth healthily? Will he/she still grow larger or will he/she permanently stay small?

I am aware pictures would help, but until he comes out of the ground the pictures will have to wait. :-)


Thanks for any help, suggestions or input you guys have for me!

[Lija]

i just want to say thank you for saving him! it sounds like he is going to have a perfect home now!

1) What sort of heating/lighting is best? I prefer an overhead heating method so I can set him up next to my Jungle Carpet Python and hook him up with the Herpstat to regulate the amount of heat he gets.

anything that would achieve required temps: UTH placed on a side, heat cable, flexitape, ceramic, heat lamps..... I prefer infrared lamps as they if plugged into controller, can provide very precise temps. Right now I have majority of tanks with heat cables taped on a side + infrared, this way it is more energy saving.
lighting - i use regular low voltage energy saving lamp, they don't need anything special as long as there is dim light of some sorts to provide day/night cycle it is all good. unless you have albino, then be very careful and do not use uvb or a bit brighter light.

2) What sort of substrate can I use (other than Eco Earth)? I know how great Eco Earth is for him, but I'd like to keep some live plants in with him until he is big enough to destroy them. I understand uprooting issues as well, but he hasn't uprooted anything as of yet & he's dug himself completely under the substrate right now. If that became an issue, I wouldn't mind potting the plants so he could still have natural plants - I'm not a big fan of the artificial plants.

eco earth are plantation soil are the most natural. some people keep on a foam and papertowels, both needed to be changed ( washed) every day. Eco earth you need to spot clean as you see and completely change once a month.

live plants.... well... uprooting is an issue as well as pacs produce so much waste that it is difficult for any live plants to survive, plus you will keep taking them out every month for substrate changes. if you really want to have live plants, consider having them in pots. another thing to consider if plants will grow in low light conditions that you need for a frog?

3) This one concerns me. With him being somewhere between 6-8 months old, I believe his growth has been stunted. He is roughly only 1.5-2" long and not very wide...from reading around on the forum, he/she should be much larger than that by now. Is there anyway to "catch up" on his growth healthily? Will he/she still grow larger or will he/she permanently stay small?

wow, just wow! are you serious? are you sure he is 6-8 month old? at that age to be that small is insane, but then i saw myself mature 2" 1 y old with MBD in a store....
does he has any MBD signs, like slightly open month for example, pics would help a lot for us to give you advice, you might need to do something more.
for now i say you need to make sure the conditions are right ( temps, humidity) and you use treated tap water. The fact he is eating is excellent, continue to do so, try everyday and as much as he can eat, smaller pray items and see how it'll go. remember to dust them with Ca/vit 3 supplements every second feeding and multivitamins once a week.

if he will grow or not and how depends on his current condition and what kind of nutrition he will be getting now.
as well you may want to check him for parasites ( fecal exam) if he lived with anoles and other frogs, he might have something that needs to be treated.

[DVirginiana]

If they had him in with lizards and tree frogs, I doubt they were feeding him the correct foods, or that he even got enough. MBD sounds like it could be a definite possibility like Lija said. Another sign of it is that it might look like it's having trouble holding itself up on its front legs.

Only other thing; I'm sure you did, but make sure to deep clean that plant. Firebellies produce some irritating toxins on their skin even for humans, so probably would have a worse effect on another frog.

[Starlitrain]

Quick update - I have not noticed any signs of MBD as of yet. He is very strong, hops around just fine and his colors are very bright.

I will update/answer questions more thoroughly once he comes out of hiding and I can take a couple quick photos. :-)

Thanks for the replies so far!

[Starlitrain]

wow, just wow! are you serious? are you sure he is 6-8 month old?

Lija, he/she is at the youngest 6-8 months old as that is how long I have seen him in that Petsmart - He may be as old as 12 months for all I know...
I've been keeping an eye on him for quite some time now & I've lost count of just how many months have gone by. :-/

[Lija]

they keep them half starving sometimes so they were tiny ( and more attractive to people) longer, hate that mentality

let's hope all he needs is good care and food very good sign that he is strong and hops and interested in food.

[tinkgirl77]

Thanks for rescuing the lil guy, it's amazing how they find us lol . He's seemd lucky to have you.

.:* Lisa *:.
laissez le bon temps roulet! :-)

[Starlitrain]

I'm very happy to have rescued him!
I just couldn't stand to see him sit there anymore under those conditions. :-/

I have some photos for everyone now. :-D
Let me know what you all think...





Maybe someone might know what species he/she is exactly? They just had him listed as "Pacman Frog".

[DeeDub]

Cool man. Good work! Not the typical turd brown crannies you get at petsmart/PETCO.

-----------------
Thanks
DW

[Lija]

looking actually healthy and happy with very full belly lol

s/he is C. Cranwelli, very pretty one.

[Starlitrain]

looking actually healthy and happy with very full belly lol

s/he is C. Cranwelli, very pretty one.

Thank you Lija! He continues to bury himself completely though. I know that is very normal, but how long should he be allowed to stay that way without eating?

[Lija]

yep, that is normal, just let him be, the less you annoy him now the better, he needs to settle down and feel safe.
you can gently brish substrate off his head, so he can see food and offer it, but do not take him out completely, he'll come around, he probably cant believe how comfortable is it now in comparison lol

[Starlitrain]

he probably cant believe how comfortable is it now in comparison lol

Ha ha! Hopefully that's it. :-D

I've tried to brush the substrate off his head, but he's literally 3 inches down and you can't even tell where he's sitting...I dug him out last night just to make sure he was actually there and so he could eat. Now that I know, I wont do that again. lol :-)

[Lija]

wait a minute how deep his substrate is now? is he 3' down it is a bit too much, try to leave layer of substrate just enough so he can bury himself but eyes would be sticking out, like may be 2-2.5" of substrate only. this way he is deep "undercover" but still can see food.

[Starlitrain]

wait a minute how deep his substrate is now? is he 3' down it is a bit too much, try to leave layer of substrate just enough so he can bury himself but eyes would be sticking out, like may be 2-2.5" of substrate only. this way he is deep "undercover" but still can see food.

Gotcha. I'll take some out as soon as I get home. It varies between 2-3"...I thought something was wrong when I couldn't see the guy. :-/

I have another question:
I'm looking at the Zoo Med UTH at Petsmart. They have two sizes I'm considering: 6" by 8" 8 watt mat (rated for 10-20 gallons) and the 8" by 12" 16 watt mat(rated for 30-40 gallons). Now I'm not too sure how well these work as I've never used them. Would I be okay getting the smaller one since I only have a 5.5 gallon enclosure right now? or should I overestimate and get the larger one? It will be hooked up to the Herpstat to control the day/night temperature changes.

[Lija]

i would get bigger one and use controller.