ADF: Lower jaw issues.

[mpmistr]

Well, larger aquariums are easier to maintain than smaller systems. You usually run the risk of bacterial infection, ammonia poisoning, disease, fungus, premature death when you go with the smaller tank. It seems to be a common theme and it's easily avoided by investing literally a few more dollars into your set up.

Considering the cost of a 10 gallon tank at Wal Mart is roughly 13 dollars I see no reason to get anything less than that, again, just my opinion.

[njnolan1]

Sure, but what are you going to do with an empty 10 gallon tank? You need a filter, a decent one is around 20 bucks or more, you'll want some lighting and a hood, that's another 20 bucks. What about decor, plants etc..? Another 20-40 dollars depending on what you get. So let's see, that's 13+20+20+20 = 73 bucks! Now, you can get a kit which most stores have but it's usually only a few bucks cheaper but you'll still be expected to get your own decor.

I checked out the price and it's like 50 bucks for a 5 gallon betta bow. I did find two okay looking 5 gallon kits (includes filter and hood/lights) on Walmart's website for under 30 bucks. They don't have them in store so I can't take a look at them in person but they do offer free at store pick up. Maybe I'll look into that. I just have to find a place to put it. I live with three other people and everyone has too much stuff so there's not a lot of room to work with...


I totally agree a 5-10 gallon is better for a betta and a much larger tank is better for a community tank. That being said, everything you stated is only a risk if the water's not clean. One betta that is fed sparingly (once a day, old food removed) will not create enough ammonia in a 2.5 gallon tank for lasting damage, especially if one has live plants and cycles the tank IMO.

[mpmistr]

Sure, but what are you going to do with an empty 10 gallon tank? You need a filter, a decent one is around 20 bucks or more, you'll want some lighting and a hood, that's another 20 bucks. What about decor, plants etc..? Another 20-40 dollars depending on what you get. So let's see, that's 13+20+20+20 = 73 bucks! Now, you can get a kit which most stores have but it's usually only a few bucks cheaper but you'll still be expected to get your own decor.

I don't remember ever saying the aquarium hobby was the cheapest hobby to get into, I know personally I have invested well over $1,000 dollars into it.

In fact now that I think about it my african clawed frogs cost me $1.65+tax each, a rather paltry sum compared to what I've spent to assure they live a long, healthy life.

That being said.. a 10 gallon tank for 13 dollars is vastly superior to 2.5 gallon 5 gallon and bowls. You're kind of high balling this stuff. Why not just get a 10 gallon from Wal Mart, get a CFL plant-grow bulb, an aluminum reflector from home depot, go down to a river or creek and collect some rocks and pick up some cheap plants at the LFS? You could easily do this set up for way less than 73 dollars. That being said, 73 dollars isn't a lot of money regardless especially compared to say a cat or dog.. their food, toys, vet bills, ect.

I checked out the price and it's like 50 bucks for a 5 gallon betta bow. I did find two okay looking 5 gallon kits (includes filter and hood/lights) on Walmart's website for under 30 bucks. They don't have them in store so I can't take a look at them in person but they do offer free at store pick up. Maybe I'll look into that. I just have to find a place to put it. I live with three other people and everyone has too much stuff so there's not a lot of room to work with...

Seems over priced, PetCo runs specials on tanks for 1 dollar a gallon up to 40 gallons. There is a saying I live by, a poor person can afford only the best. Why not just invest in something that will last rather than buy these gimmicks?

I totally agree a 5-10 gallon is better for a betta and a much larger tank is better for a community tank. That being said, everything you stated is only a risk if the water's not clean. One betta that is fed sparingly (once a day, old food removed) will not create enough ammonia in a 2.5 gallon tank for lasting damage, especially if one has live plants and cycles the tank IMO.

I don't think it will reach it's full life span in 2.5 gallons, it may live for year or two if you're lucky but really our goal should be allowing these animals to live out their entire natural life without sickness or disease, premature death. How long do betta fish live? 6 years 9 years? How many people do you know that have kept a betta fish in a 2.5 gallon tank for that amount of time? I am willing to bet most of these fish succumb to illness in 1 year or less.

I guess my point is it takes a better mastery of the hobby to successfully keep fish in smaller aquarium, it's actually more work. Bigger tanks are just easier to maintain is the simple message I am trying to convey here.. mo' water less problems, you could say.

[njnolan1]

I've had friends keep bettas in tiny bowls for over two years. Yes, they would have lived longer in larger tanks I'm sure but they were in bowls 5 times smaller than 2.5 gallon tanks so I'm sure if the were in those tanks they would have lived at least 3+. They're life expectancy, at least what I've read on betta forum stickies, is 3-6 years. I've had many, many customers tell me they've had bettas live for years in little one gallon bowls with weekly cleanings. I've had some tell me up to 7 years in small bowls. Older individuals (60+) who have no reason to lie. The people who seem to have the best luck use distilled water and I think the main reason the fish don't live longer is due to the fact that most don't use heaters or try to keep the fish above 78.

I've been poor most of my life and I find your statement a bit obtuse. How is one to invest without physically having the money to do so? I would love to be able to invest in better brands and products but if I only have 30 bucks in the bank how am I supposed to spend 50+? Not to get personal but I'm in school, working PT (80-125 a week) for just above minimum wage and have to share my fiance's car, pay two school bills, by food, gas, etc... 73 dollars is a ton of money in my eyes. I can't even afford to go see my mother in NJ. It's been nearly a year but I have no where to stay so now not only do I have to spend 200+ on a round trip ticket I'm going to need hundreds of dollars for a motel. How does one afford only the best? You could say "why does one without money have pets?" and I'd agree with you. But the frogs were given to me and I trust no one to care for them that I know personally. I am trying my best...

I totally agree with you that a larger tank is easier to maintain. I always tell customers this. But they're more expensive too... Even petco's dollar a gallon deal only covers the tank right? Not the hood/light, heater and filter? It's still going to cost me like 50+. Trust me, I want a larger tank but the fish seem fine and happy in my little tank. They eat, swim around and hang out. Unhappy fish don't eat. It's the frogs that started acting up. But they definitely seem to calm down when I turn the overhead lights off. They're not sluggish or anything and they eat without hesitation. I think the white mark is healing and was probably a wound from rubbing on the plastic when I had the lights on 10 hours a day. With the exception of one recent test that showed a small amount of ammonia (because I was over feeding, the frogs were not eating the leftover food, I feed a lot less now) all of my tests for the past couple of months have been very clean. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrates and <10 nitrates.

I don't think this is going anywhere . I appreciate your time and opinions and tips. I've considered all of your advice