Why did my little Alfred die? (ACF)

[mpmistr]

@Michael, thanks again Your setup sounds great! I bet your froggies love it. They look so cute too!
Hope you don't mind one last question Are all your froggies the same sex? If not, what will you do or do do when they mate? What are you going to do with the tadpoles?

Honestly I'm not sure. My dark 'wild type' frog is most likely female, she's about 1 year old and no nuptial pads, and her cloaca looks female to me.

My other pigmented frog is quite a bit smaller than the other two but has no 'dark hands' yet, but I've only had him since September and he was fairly small when I got him. I want to say he's a male because of his size but no nuptial pads has me wondering, I will give him a few months and see if he matures. He's about 3 inches.

My albino is a complete mystery. for one he is very large.. about 4 inches and almost 1 year old now. He gets nuptial pads but they're not very dark at all. He/she is just as large as my female frog and I've never heard any of my frogs call nor have they tried to get frisky.. so your guess is as good as mine. I have the most androgynous frogs ever...



I'm not sure what I'd do with tadpoles. I just moved to a new town and there is a local fish store here I suppose I would see if he'd be interested in selling froglets if my frogs were to reproduce. I'm kind of hoping my frogs are all female so they can cohabit the same tank without any mating issues.

Yes, I was very upset (very very upset). I know some people say they are "only" frogs, but what do they know
I do want to get another ACF (maybe a group) and do it better this time. I thought I did all the research possible and made the best decisions based on that... I wish I found this forum earlier.

Doing research prior to purchasing is usually a good idea for any pet you wish to keep. I wish I had done this too, I went out and grabbed a tank and a frog and threw it all together and didn't do my homework either when I started keeping ACF. I had ammonia issues and the tank was not cycled. What I was lucky enough to have was a friend with a small 'mature' filter he had kept on one of his tanks and he let me use it. The bacteria from this filter seeded my tank and cycled it very quickly before much harm was done. Now I know better. I keep *3* HOB filters running on a 20g with a few fish in it to seed future tanks with them (I used them to seed my 40 gallon tank and cycle it in 1 week for my canister filter). It's a method that actually works, believe it or not.

My best advice is when you get new frogs, get the biggest tank you can afford/fit in your home. Even in my 40 gallon tank with only 3 frogs I still wind up doing weekly 25% to 50% water changes and even though the tank is heavily planted there is always nitrate present. These guys produce waste very quickly and I just can't imagine keeping them in anything less than I do right now. In fact when I have the space I would like to move my frogs to a 75 gallon or larger tank.

Larger tanks are just easier to keep than smaller ones, people seem to think small tanks are easier to maintain, it's actually the other way around. Cycle your tank first, there are a lot of articles online about cycling, the best methods are to seed it with used filter media, you could use a few small, hardy fish to seed your tank and cycle it (though "fish in" cycling is a bit cruel) or you could do a fishless (or in this case frogless cycle) though that tends to take ~6 weeks.

Good luck and don't give up! I also keep fish and I've lost quite a few, I've just been fortunate with my frogs thankfully. There is always more to learn!

[Verdure]

@Michael, that photo is so cute, ACFs are sweeties

The worst thing is that I actually did research and thought I knew what I was doing, I read all the care sheets out there, borrowed a few books out of my local library (there is so little out there about aquatic frogs) and it still went wrong. It must have been the gravel or the food... When my husband and I saw these cute little frogs in the pet shop we instantly fell in love but spent a few days reading up all we could and buying supplies.

I agree about the tank size, I've had my eye on this 40 gallon tank for sale in my local pet shop and will probably buy that. Anyway, more space is always better. I love seeing animals frolic in a nice environment We were going to buy a larger tank for Alfred this summer, but unfortunately ...

I will definitely be cycling the tank, just got to find some filter media somewhere. I would rather cycle without fish since most fish can't be kept with ACFs anyway. Hope my local aquatics shop is free of disease.

Thanks for your support, Michael, I learned a lot, but won't stop there I will definitely post on this forum when I do get some froggies, make sure everything is ok for them.

[mpmistr]

@Michael, that photo is so cute, ACFs are sweeties

The worst thing is that I actually did research and thought I knew what I was doing, I read all the care sheets out there, borrowed a few books out of my local library (there is so little out there about aquatic frogs) and it still went wrong. It must have been the gravel or the food... When my husband and I saw these cute little frogs in the pet shop we instantly fell in love but spent a few days reading up all we could and buying supplies.

Since X. Laevis is basically an aquatic lab rat most of the care sheets are geared towards keeping them as lab animals. I think I've read most of the care sheets on the internet and while a lot are accurate there's more than a few that are simply dead wrong. I think these are pretty darn easy animals to keep when you think about it though, they have a few basic needs but if you can meet those needs then they are a pretty darn hardy, long lived animal.

I agree about the tank size, I've had my eye on this 40 gallon tank for sale in my local pet shop and will probably buy that. Anyway, more space is always better. I love seeing animals frolic in a nice environment We were going to buy a larger tank for Alfred this summer, but unfortunately ...

Don't be discouraged. I think once you have a larger, cycled tank you will be able to enjoy these guys a lot more. They are very active in large tanks and often swim around, explore (looking for food of course).

I will definitely be cycling the tank, just got to find some filter media somewhere. I would rather cycle without fish since most fish can't be kept with ACFs anyway. Hope my local aquatics shop is free of disease.

Thanks for your support, Michael, I learned a lot, but won't stop there I will definitely post on this forum when I do get some froggies, make sure everything is ok for them.

Not a problem at all I am glad I can help. Have you considered using invertebrates to aid in the cycling process? You could perhaps add inexpensive american glass shrimp (commonly sold as ghost shrimp in the US) to your tank when you are cycling, you may lose a few but they don't live very long anyways and are prone to randomly dying regardless. Once your tank is cycled the shrimp will become food or even better, little scavengers to eat left over food if you are lucky enough to have frogs that are indifferent to them (mine ignore them completely). I've also heard of people using apple/mystery snails to help cycle tanks as well. They don't create much bio waste but they would help in the creation of the bacteria to begin the nitrification process.

[Verdure]

I haven't thought of invertebrates but I'm glad you mentioned them! It sounds a lot easier since these animals can actually be kept with ACFs afterwards. I've always wanted shrimp, but I'm afraid their population may get out of control? I heard they breed really fast.

Also I wanted to ask, how do you change your water in your huge tank? You prepare 5 buckets of water a day before changing it? Or do you have a larger container for it? And when/if you go on holiday, do you just ask a friend to come in and do it?

[mpmistr]

Ghost Shrimp eggs produce larvae which are usually sucked into filters and die. Other shrimp may be more prolific, such as Red Cherry Shrimp. These populations can always be culled if necessary, I've never kept any of the fast breeding shrimp but I doubt they're too hard to control. It's fast breeding snails that annoy me, especially ramshorn and pond snails.. I'm still removing oodles of them from one of my tanks and they've popped up in my frog tank so I just remove them when I see one.

I do water changes pretty old school. I have three 5.5 gallon buckets (~21 litres) and I fill two and let them sit for at least 24 hours. I clean out dead plant matter, feces, or whatever else accumulates on the bottom of my tank (I use sand so it cleans up easy) with a simple gravel vac, I prefer the ones that have a squeeze 'pump' because it's easier to get those going.

Anyways I fill the bucket, toss it out, fill another, toss it out. If some of the 'stuff' decaying on the bottom of the tank was not vacuumed out I will just net it out by hand. I then add conditioner (I prefer Prime) to my buckets of replacement water, I stir in the water conditioner let it sit for a few minutes and just slowly pour the water back into the tank without scaring the **** out of the frogs too badly.

I usually do this once a week, some times twice a week. I try not to do 50% at the same time but I don't have enough buckets to allow enough tap water to sit 24hrs. My nitrates usually are 5ppm to 10ppm.

I don't know what I would do if went on an actual vacation, I suppose I'd ask a friend to feed them. Most of my trips are three days max, I don't worry about my frogs if I am only gone for a few days. My lights are on automatic timers and I just feed them and do a 25% water change before I leave, these frogs can go several days without food and it will not do them any harm.