Why did my little Alfred die? (ACF)

[mpmistr]

Thanks for all the info. I thought I was giving her a good diet... I should have come here first. I will also upgrade any future froggies to a larger tank.

I didn't have a filter because I thought that it would be too intrusive, but I was considering purchasing the Whisper filter when I got a new tank (plus less frequent water changes would have been welcome), are those good for ACFs?

Once again, thanks for all your help. I should have come here sooner.

@Verdure -- Filtration is definitively a must especially in that small of a tank. They do no harm to frogs what so ever, don't believe what you may have read on some care sheets. A Tetra Whisper filter would work fine, get a beefy one I would suggest the Whisper 40i model. I use a rather beefy Eheim (2217) on my 40(US) gallon tank and my frogs show no ill effects, in fact they hang out near the spray bar often.

ACF produce solid feces and are messy animals as you probably know, you can never have enough filtration.

@reptileszz -- Wet/frozen foods are found usually in the freezer section or your local fish store. They usually come in blister packs.. examples would be frozen blood worm, mysis shrimp, brine, krill, silversides all make a good occasional *treat* though I wouldn't recommend any of that food as a staple. There is also beef heart in those fridges, I recommend against it.. I don't think frogs should be eating much if any mammal flesh (the fat of mammals tends to block arteries in amphibians over time).. when would an ACF ever eat a COW?

Your reptomin/HBH pellets are a good staple, I feed my frogs reptomin and they seem to be doing very well. Only one of my frogs will bother with HBH pellets, my frogs are a big large now for them and for some reason 2 out of 3 couldn't care less about them and just ignore them. It takes a while but your frogs will look to the surface for reptomin eventually, my advice would be to hand feed your frogs near the surface and stop feeding sinking pellets.. eventually they WILL learn to look to the surface for food. When I go near my tank my frogs go NUTS near the top of the water because they know that's where the food will be. I've seen my frogs actually jump a few inches biting at the air! They can and will learn, especially when it comes to their meals!

In my opinion once ACF get large they do really well on candian nightcrawlers, the ones you can buy at bait stores or even walmart. I feed earthworms to my frogs probably more than anything else. One large nightcrawler every other day keeps them fat and healthy. Since they swallow them whole there is little mess or clean up too, besides their rather enormous poops afterwards lol.. I also feed my frogs crickets now and then, since in the wild they would probably consume a lot of arthopods (I would love to get some dubai roaches some day for my ACF).

[reptileszz]

@reptileszz -- Wet/frozen foods are found usually in the freezer section or your local fish store. They usually come in blister packs.. examples would be frozen blood worm, mysis shrimp, brine, krill, silversides all make a good occasional *treat* though I wouldn't recommend any of that food as a staple. There is also beef heart in those fridges, I recommend against it.. I don't think frogs should be eating much if any mammal flesh (the fat of mammals tends to block arteries in amphibians over time).. when would an ACF ever eat a COW?

Your reptomin/HBH pellets are a good staple, I feed my frogs reptomin and they seem to be doing very well. Only one of my frogs will bother with HBH pellets, my frogs are a big large now for them and for some reason 2 out of 3 couldn't care less about them and just ignore them. It takes a while but your frogs will look to the surface for reptomin eventually, my advice would be to hand feed your frogs near the surface and stop feeding sinking pellets.. eventually they WILL learn to look to the surface for food. When I go near my tank my frogs go NUTS near the top of the water because they know that's where the food will be. I've seen my frogs actually jump a few inches biting at the air! They can and will learn, especially when it comes to their meals!

In my opinion once ACF get large they do really well on candian nightcrawlers, the ones you can buy at bait stores or even walmart. I feed earthworms to my frogs probably more than anything else. One large nightcrawler every other day keeps them fat and healthy. Since they swallow them whole there is little mess or clean up too, besides their rather enormous poops afterwards lol.. I also feed my frogs crickets now and then, since in the wild they would probably consume a lot of arthopods (I would love to get some dubai roaches some day for my ACF).

I seem to be able to drop one sinking pellet at a time in front of the frogs and they will eat them. They are very shy and are never near the top. I can't imagine being able to coax them up there. Maybe when they get bigger? Also, I just bought a pound of the xenopus.com sinkers. I want to use them hehe.

Where are you? I raise dubia roaches for my dragons. I can certainly spare a few.

Thanks for the response!
Carole

[mpmistr]

Are they juveniles? They seem to get bolder as they age and they become more tame as well.

I am sure the xenopus.com stuff is quality stuff so I would want to use it too.

I'm in southern Illinois if you're looking to sell dubai just let me know! I can't seem to find any around here.

[reptileszz]

Are they juveniles? They seem to get bolder as they age and they become more tame as well.

I am sure the xenopus.com stuff is quality stuff so I would want to use it too.

I'm in southern Illinois if you're looking to sell dubai just let me know! I can't seem to find any around here.

They are juveniles, pretty small at about 1.5 inches. I think they are bigger than when I got them 2 weeks ago but not sure.

Are you near Chicago? There is an excellent reptile show coming up in Tinley Park next weekend. I heartily recommend it as it is a super clean, nice show. There would definitely be some dubia roaches for sale there. I'm way over in CT. Link would help. http://www.narbc.com/

Thanks!
Carole

[Verdure]

@Carole, thank you for your condolences.

@Michael, thanks again! Can you recommend any good literature on caring for ACFs? Seems that care sheets are all over the place. Are these any good -
http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator...46624&mode=prd
http://content.www.rspca.org.uk/cmsp...&ssbinary=true

RSPCA, as you may know, is an animal welfare charity in the UK.

Also, is it worth purchasing lymnozyme to use during water changes to prevent red leg? Is it true that blood worms may carry infections that can harm frogs?

[mpmistr]

@Carole, thank you for your condolences.

@Michael, thanks again! Can you recommend any good literature on caring for ACFs? Seems that care sheets are all over the place. Are these any good -
http://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator...46624&mode=prd
http://content.www.rspca.org.uk/cmsp...&ssbinary=true

Those care sheets seem fine, though they seem to be focused more on the husbandry of X. Laevis as a lab animals, as pet owners we expect our frogs to live quite a bit longer.

One of the best caresheets can be found on Wet Web Media FrogsArtNeale if you read enough you'll start to realize that ACF/ADF should be kept more like fish than like a typical frog.

RSPCA, as you may know, is an animal welfare charity in the UK.

In the US we have the ASPCA, a very similar organization.

Also, is it worth purchasing lymnozyme to use during water changes to prevent red leg? Is it true that blood worms may carry infections that can harm frogs?

Medication should be avoided unless absolutely necessary, proper husbandry is the best prevention of red leg. Do weekly water changes and add a dechlorinator (like Prime) to tap water that has sat out for 24 hours and do not over stock your aquarium and red leg should never become an issue. Would it hurt to OWN some Lymozyme? Probably not but I would strive to never need to use it.

@reptileszz

Your frogs are still quite young, they will get much larger, bolder and tame. When I first started keeping ACF I was a bit discouraged on how small/timid they were but now that my frogs are 4 inches or more now, they're swimming all over the place now.

I was in Chicago back in December, sadly it's about 4 hours away, I live much closer to St. Louis.

[reptileszz]

I was in Chicago back in December, sadly it's about 4 hours away, I live much closer to St. Louis.

Doh! There was a show today in St. Louis. Closes in 15 min But there is another one in May! St. Louis Reptile Show

Thanks for all your help!
Carole

[Verdure]

@Michael
Thanks again for your advice.

Those care sheets seem fine, though they seem to be focused more on the husbandry of X. Laevis as a lab animals, as pet owners we expect our frogs to live quite a bit longer.

Yeah, I didn't like the guidelines on how much water should be in a tank per frog, definitely too little.



Also, I was wondering if you could describe to me your tank set up, how many frogs you have, how you feed them etc? And do you fill your whole aquarium up with water?
My area has rather hard water, is this a problem at all? I noticed because one of the buckets I used to change the water developed some mineral deposits.

And, one more thing, how exactly is the freeze-dried food bad for ACFs? Reptomin is also dry and it would seem to me would also cause constipation?

[mpmistr]

I keep three nearly adult ACF in a 40 gallon breeder tank (roughly 45 US Gallons). I keep my aquarium filled but lower the water about 3 inches below maximum capacity so they have room to breath (I also use a glass lid to prevent escapes. I have a lot of floating plants and some jungle vals and driftwood for decoration.

Hard water is good for ACF, they actually prefer it. I wouldn't worry about that. I actually added crushed coral to my filter media because my water is soft and i wanted to add more hardness for my frogs.

Freeze Dried foods are hard to digest, I believe because of the way they are processed they 'gum up' when digested, they cause intestinal blockages and bloat. Pelleted foods generally do not.

I personally feed my frogs a diet of reptomin, canadian nightcrawlers, and crickets for treats..

[Miss Blue]

So sorry for your loss! Its easy to tell you are a pet lover and are upset over this, I dont blame you! I do not own ACF's so cannot speak to that, however I do encourage you do all the research you can (and discussions on this forum are so helpful!) and try again, another ACF would be very lucky to have you care for them