Dubia = Cannibals?

[yoshimi]

Everything and more. I'll think I'll stick with my dubia. 1st thing I read last night was a warning to NOT let a red runner escape. I wouldn't be breeding them anyway, I didn't plan to breed dubia but I won the set so I went for it, even tho I was conflicted. Now I find them enjoyable. I separate babies cuz that's what I feed and when they're that small I can't really feel them crawling on my fingers, so the less in adult bin when I have my hands in there, the better. Of course, can never get them all, and wouldn't anyway, as I want to keep things going a little (not a lot).
I meant that the shorter female had a small litter, but I have some preggo ladies who are much longer in the body, and I imagine their babies are more plentiful, and since they're holding still, maybe bigger when they pop out. Perhaps that's why the 1st litter in breeding bin stayed under mama for so long, and new ones go wandering. More incubation time, bigger babies? Eh.
I actually like that dubia play dead. Not as bad as crickets who all freeze at once (but never when you're trying to pluck them out of their cricket bin). The roaches run around in Banjo's food dish, she eats, then if a few are left over staying still, she can come back later and get the rest. It hasn't been an issue. She's a big eater, but no, she's no baby bearded dragon (which is on my wishlist).
Glad to know, as Augie, that my dubia aren't chowing down on each other when I'm not looking. I have a small, manageable colony and plan to keep it that way, so phew.

[demon amphibians]

I could not agree more with Jeff when concerning cannibalism. I could not have said it better. I posted to a thread that two member's were convinced that if you mixed Madagascar hissing roaches with dubia's that the hissers would eat the new born dubia's. It lead to a pretty heated argument which was pretty funny. What Jeff stated is exactly correct. If you don't have conditions right then and only then will you see cannibalism. If you don't have proper moisture levels even adult dubia's can become victims of cannibalism. Now it may seem like male dubia will chomp at each others wings and become to look very sickly. This is not cannibalism this is a result of to many males in one enclosure. These guys will fight like cats and dogs if they out number the females. That is why I always stress the importance of keep them at least 3 female to 1 male. But even with large amounts of males in one enclosure I have yet to see a death result from the male aggression. I also agree with Jeff on the over population part too I have witnessed very little cannibalize just because I have well over 10,000 in one bin. I just upgraded to 3 bins one for the breeders one for the mixed size nymphs and one for the new born nymphs. I have let my colony grow for about 15 months feeding only extra males to my frogs, toads and turtles. Now its looking like I will be need a 4th bin because I have so many breeders. I hand counted my female and male breeder bin last month just to have a better idea of how many males I needed and I counted 1025 females. I clean my bins every 2 weeks and every time I pull out 70-150 mature females of my mixed size bins and transfer them to my breeder. I would say I have roughly 1250 females with 300 males. And lately I have noticed that these these guys need more space then previously thought. I mean a lot more space. And I can see it through the numbers that I am breeding at, I average about 5000-7000 newborns a month were I should be seeing numbers closer to 18000. So what I am going to do is divide my breeder bin in half to two bins of the same size, give it two months and then I will let you all know the difference in reproduction. I will also need a 5th bin for my midsize bin because it is getting so cramped. My bin isn't small either it is 36 gal. And my two breeding bins are 25gal. So for all you who are starting out with your new colonies keep in mind they will do better with more space and this will help reduce that small amount of cannibalism. I will keep you all posted on my results as well as when I will do my give free give aways.

If you are reading this and wondering why I have so many roaches. Its because I plan on breeding cane toads and American bullfrogs and if I have thousands of little frogs hopping around before I can sell them I will need a lot to feed. But since I have been so successful breeding dubia's and I am enraged with the market price of them, I have choose to sell them as well.

Good info Jeff it is good to find a seasoned roach breeder in the community.

[yoshimi]

I could not agree more with Jeff when concerning cannibalism. I could not have said it better. I posted to a thread that two member's were convinced that if you mixed Madagascar hissing roaches with dubia's that the hissers would eat the new born dubia's. It lead to a pretty heated argument which was pretty funny. What Jeff stated is exactly correct. If you don't have conditions right then and only then will you see cannibalism. If you don't have proper moisture levels even adult dubia's can become victims of cannibalism. Now it may seem like male dubia will chomp at each others wings and become to look very sickly. This is not cannibalism this is a result of to many males in one enclosure. These guys will fight like cats and dogs if they out number the females. That is why I always stress the importance of keep them at least 3 female to 1 male. But even with large amounts of males in one enclosure I have yet to see a death result from the male aggression. I also agree with Jeff on the over population part too I have witnessed very little cannibalize just because I have well over 10,000 in one bin. I just upgraded to 3 bins one for the breeders one for the mixed size nymphs and one for the new born nymphs. I have let my colony grow for about 15 months feeding only extra males to my frogs, toads and turtles. Now its looking like I will be need a 4th bin because I have so many breeders. I hand counted my female and male breeder bin last month just to have a better idea of how many males I needed and I counted 1025 females. I clean my bins every 2 weeks and every time I pull out 70-150 mature females of my mixed size bins and transfer them to my breeder. I would say I have roughly 1250 females with 300 males. And lately I have noticed that these these guys need more space then previously thought. I mean a lot more space. And I can see it through the numbers that I am breeding at, I average about 5000-7000 newborns a month were I should be seeing numbers closer to 18000. So what I am going to do is divide my breeder bin in half to two bins of the same size, give it two months and then I will let you all know the difference in reproduction. I will also need a 5th bin for my midsize bin because it is getting so cramped. My bin isn't small either it is 36 gal. And my two breeding bins are 25gal. So for all you who are starting out with your new colonies keep in mind they will do better with more space and this will help reduce that small amount of cannibalism. I will keep you all posted on my results as well as when I will do my give free give aways.

If you are reading this and wondering why I have so many roaches. Its because I plan on breeding cane toads and American bullfrogs and if I have thousands of little frogs hopping around before I can sell them I will need a lot to feed. But since I have been so successful breeding dubia's and I am enraged with the market price of them, I have choose to sell them as well.

Good info Jeff it is good to find a seasoned roach breeder in the community.

I agree about the retail price being nuts. Even factoring in their benefits, it's still crazy, and much more than red runners. I don't feel guilty about the price I'm selling them at, because of the number I have available. But when/if, I have more, they'll be cheaper to let go of. If you send 1st class and don't put rocks in the box, it's pretty cheap to ship them.
Also, I'm getting better at moving the babies. I have an 18-gallon for my breeders, and another like-sized (20 gallon i think) waiting in the wings, purchased on clearance after christmas. Moving the little ones makes it easier (for me) to keep track of how many new litters are showing up. Have some larger nymphs in breeder bin to grow because they're from an order I purchased and that's my idea of keeping the colony going. One died tho. I don't know why. Nobody ate it, it just keeled over.
And again, I agree that Jeff is awesome to have around. And you as well.

[demon amphibians]

I agree about the retail price being nuts. Even factoring in their benefits, it's still crazy, and much more than red runners. I don't feel guilty about the price I'm selling them at, because of the number I have available. But when/if, I have more, they'll be cheaper to let go of. If you send 1st class and don't put rocks in the box, it's pretty cheap to ship them.
Also, I'm getting better at moving the babies. I have an 18-gallon for my breeders, and another like-sized (20 gallon i think) waiting in the wings, purchased on clearance after christmas. Moving the little ones makes it easier (for me) to keep track of how many new litters are showing up. Have some larger nymphs in breeder bin to grow because they're from an order I purchased and that's my idea of keeping the colony going. One died tho. I don't know why. Nobody ate it, it just keeled over.
And again, I agree that Jeff is awesome to have around. And you as well.

There is a super easy way to separate the babies when you start reproducing more. Pulling them all out by hand can start being an extensive project. What you do is take two buckets drill holes in one of them just large enough for the babies to slip through kind of like a strainer, you dump all the roaches in the bucket with holes while it is sitting in the other bucket then lightly shake and the babies will fall through into the second bucket leaving the adults in the first bucket. there are a few examples on you tube. I only do this once every two weeks because it will cause quit the disturbance and you wanna give these guys as much privacy as possible.

[yoshimi]

There is a super easy way to separate the babies when you start reproducing more. Pulling them all out by hand can start being an extensive project. What you do is take two buckets drill holes in one of them just large enough for the babies to slip through kind of like a strainer, you dump all the roaches in the bucket with holes while it is sitting in the other bucket then lightly shake and the babies will fall through into the second bucket leaving the adults in the first bucket. there are a few examples on you tube. I only do this once every two weeks because it will cause quit the disturbance and you wanna give these guys as much privacy as possible.

I've seen those videos on youtube too. I'm unsure about my ability to do this safely and without losing any. Damn cats. So for now, I wait til I see them all (babies) huddled together, and I can get a couple litters that way, tho I have to get adults out of my way sometimes. Luckily, they don't care about protecting the little ones anymore. It can take a while, but I'm getting better at it. I try to keep up with it. But I probably won't ever have the massive colony that would require filtering. Tho I can definitely see how it'd be helpful.
What's the lag time between a female (obviously) giving birth and getting pregnant again?

[demon amphibians]

It is quick easy method but if you don't have many then moving by hand may be a better option. You don't want to much disruption in your colony. Good move.

The lag time between berth is 2 months before they will berth again. One month from berth until they will even breed again, and one month to develop the young. This time may vary between 6-8 weeks but closer to 8 weeks is more accurate. I once read on the LLL reptile sight that stated 20 females will berth 500 a month. This is very inaccurate. It will be closer to 600 every two months. I am figuring it was just a sales pitch. If you are seeing 500 a month with 20 females i would love for anyone to let me now this secret.

I have never had a roach try to protect its young that is very interesting. But then again i have never attempted to remove babies just after berth.

[yoshimi]

It is quick easy method but if you don't have many then moving by hand may be a better option. You don't want to much disruption in your colony. Good move.

The lag time between berth is 2 months before they will berth again. One month from berth until they will even breed again, and one month to develop the young. This time may vary between 6-8 weeks but closer to 8 weeks is more accurate. I once read on the LLL reptile sight that stated 20 females will berth 500 a month. This is very inaccurate. It will be closer to 600 every two months. I am figuring it was just a sales pitch. If you are seeing 500 a month with 20 females i would love for anyone to let me now this secret.

I have never had a roach try to protect its young that is very interesting. But then again i have never attempted to remove babies just after berth.

Yeah the people I won them from usually sell them with the claim that the 35 are capable of producing 600/month, I believe. But I don't believe it. 360-400 maybe, if it goes on like it has. So tho I still have pregnant females, (they molted at different times, over a few week period, and the last to mature was a female), I should expect that 1st one to give another litter and the process to begin again in about 6 wks. I wasn't sure, cuz the males seem to be trying to court the girls who aren't pregnant, but they may just be hanging out together. Those poor guys. I did notice that once everyone was pregnant, they all seemed to hang around together. Not fighting, but if I'd lift something up on one side of tank, there'd just be a bunch of guys there. And now there are little baby guys. Guess they have nothing to do now.

The 1st litter (dunno what else to call it), was March 1st, and within 24hrs, I was trying to remove them, as they were all together so I thought it'd be easy. But there were 4 ladies on that egg crate and they didn't want to let go. Particularly one, who wouldn't run scared, just held on tightly and dug deeper into the babies. They weren't even that new, and I've seen newly born white nymphs running around free with their brothers and sisters still eating their casing.. So, yeah, it was weird, and I felt bad. But part of it I'm sure was me, and how I interpreted it.

Thanks for the info.