Help a new frog owner out

[clydefrogmom]

Our baby pacman frog is not eating..we took him to the vet...got some things moving but now I'm so confused on what to use for his flooring. The vet spoke so fast and said use moss not coco fiber stuff. But now my frog looks so unhappy...thankfully the syringe feeding is better and the adjustment in lighting is helping. But the floor now is bare with just a bit of moss. Something was irritating him from before I cleaned out the tank and I swear the vet said it was the coco fiber. But all I read is that what you use? Clyde was happy and hopping at the vet on just a towel, would that be something for his flooring? If he truly seems to not like the moss or the fiber stuff

[DVirginiana]

Sounds like your vet doesn't know much about frogs. First of all, answer the questions in the Trouble in the Enclosure sticky. I imagine your temperature and humidity are probably a little off. That can cause them to act funny and get sick.

What does the vet have you syringe-feeding him? It's good that you're getting food into him, but stress can be a huge problem for frogs, and force-feeding is very stressful on them. Hopefully you can get him eating normally soon.

Coco-fiber is actually the recommended bedding for pacman frogs. Unless you feed in a separate container (which I don't recommend for skittish or stressed out frogs, as it just stresses them more) moss is a bad substrate. It can and will be accidentally eaten when the frog strikes, and this can cause impaction. No need to rush and change it as long as you're syringe feeding, but coco-fiber works best.
Moist paper towels (soaked in treated water) are fine, but just out of curiosity what is he doing that makes you think he dislikes coco fiber or moss? They enjoy burrowing, and a happy, healthy pacman frog will often sit in the same spot without moving for days. Hopping around for no reason is actually probably a sign of stress.

[clydefrogmom]

Sounds like your vet doesn't know much about frogs. First of all, answer the questions in the Trouble in the Enclosure sticky. I imagine your temperature and humidity are probably a little off. That can cause them to act funny and get sick.

What does the vet have you syringe-feeding him? It's good that you're getting food into him, but stress can be a huge problem for frogs, and force-feeding is very stressful on them. Hopefully you can get him eating normally soon.

Coco-fiber is actually the recommended bedding for pacman frogs. Unless you feed in a separate container (which I don't recommend for skittish or stressed out frogs, as it just stresses them more) moss is a bad substrate. It can and will be accidentally eaten when the frog strikes, and this can cause impaction. No need to rush and change it as long as you're syringe feeding, but coco-fiber works best.
Moist paper towels (soaked in treated water) are fine, but just out of curiosity what is he doing that makes you think he dislikes coco fiber or moss? They enjoy burrowing, and a happy, healthy pacman frog will often sit in the same spot without moving for days. Hopping around for no reason is actually probably a sign of stress.

We are forcing some calcium since his back legs aren't growing well and since he isn't eating at all yet. The syringe is some can of food. He seemed to like that and opened right up for it.

He had a slimy coating on him. I think it was the moss or the temps off. We covered the lid with just a hole for the light now.


I k ow he would love to burrow...is the small fiber dust or something like the coco bark that's chunkier better?

i hope to only force food for a couple days then try some worms.

[DVirginiana]

The coco-fiber is better. The bark is dangerous for the same reason moss is.

You need to post the answers to the Trouble in the Enclosure sticky. There are probably a couple things that could be fixed about his temp/humidity/housing, but we can't recommend anything unless we know what you're already doing.

What do you mean 'forcing some calcium'? How are you doing this? I ask because too much calcium can cause serious problems just like not enough can. What is the 'can of food'? It has to have a label or something on it.If your vet told you you can't house pacs on coco-fiber, he/she clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. I would be skeptical of anything else he recommended. Sadly, it's not unheard of for vets to pretend to know how to treat exotics when they really don't.
That may not be the case here, but from what you've said, idk.
Also, what is wrong with the back legs that makes you think they are growing incorrectly? Please post a picture. Also a picture of the whole frog so we can see the weight.

There's no need to cover the whole lid. At most, only 2/3 of the lid should be covered if you need to keep humidity up; they need fresh air. Put up a picture of your tank as well. Do you have a hygrometer and thermometer in his tank? If not you need to get those ASAP. Temp and humidity being correct are the most important things for keeping pacs healthy.

[clydefrogmom]

I've only got the lid covered around where the light is not at. I'll post pictures later. I don't have time this morning for it.

the calcium is a gel syring given. but barely .01 ml/day. like tiny amount. and this will stop when he starts eating on his own

I have the coco-fiber in there now...although I found them on his rock this morning. LIke I said the dude talked fast he could of said no moss and not no coco-fiber...it wasn't easy listening to him talk fast and both my boys talking too.

the can is vet grade cat food actually...now that I read the label. (I find that weird but not too weird...) this vet deals with all sorts of animals...they are the ONLY ONE in the area that would even accept a frog. they had a guy with a snake in around the same time as me...don't know what kind of snake because I didn't want to look to closely.

he did suggest worms to try and get him to eat.

the Clyde is 8 ounces (got weighed yesterday)

and yes I have the hygrometer an thermometer in his tank.

[DVirginiana]

Okay, stop feeding the catfood immediately. If it's canned, it's got preservatives, and that could seriously mess up your frog. Also, I wouldn't listen to anything else this vet has to say about frogs. Non-exotics-specialist vets can sometimes be very helpful if they are up front about how much they know about the animals which this one clearly hasn't been...

Go by walmart and pick up a can of DMF nightcrawlers. You can cut them into appropriately sized pieces and force-feed those (probably a similar way to the way you're syringe-feeding). Probably just rubbing it on the frog's lips for a few minutes will be enough to annoy him into taking it. Also, do you have reptile calcium/vitamin (withOUT phosphorous) supplement to dust with after he starts eating? If you do, you can lightly dust a worm chunk every other feeding.
Considering this vet gave you cat food to feed a frog, I'd be afraid to keep using anything he/she gave you, including whatever that calcium gel is.

They can also get minerals through their skin from a reptiboost or pedialyte soak, which would probably be a safer method. I have not had to do one of these, so I dont' know the mixture off the top of my head, but someone else will probably come along and give you the correct ratio of reptiboost or pedialyte to water.

Well, since you have the thermometer and hygrometer in his tank, what are the temps and humidity? It sounds like you've been given some bad info that could be causing problems for your frog. But without information we can't tell what.
The hopping around and sitting on his rock may be a sign that he's stressed, looking for food, or too hot (since they burrow to keep cool). But without more info idk which.


The Trouble in the Enclosure sticky is right here
http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html
Please answer these questions in your next post. It takes like five minutes.

[Lija]

I was reading all this thinking what the heck lol did vet said you to do that? oh my..... poor frog

I know what you are feeding him, or i think i know, i used it for one of my frogs in critical condition. medical recovery? white can with green on a label? is it what you have? it is ok for feed frogs in emergency situations only, i highly doubt you are there yet. Feeding that food has certain risks that I hope your vet explained, aspiration is a major one, if that happens there might be nothing else can be done for a frog. When you feed you need to push the syringe very slowly and make sure a frog will swallow. it should be used as a last resort only.

as you were advised answer trouble in the enclosure questions in you next post, we can't help you and your frog without seeing the whole picture. I have very strong suspicion you need to change everything except the frog and do it asap!

[GrifTheGreat]

FYI everyone. It is perfectly fine to feed any carnivorous amphibian or reptile critical care dog/cat food. If you don't know 100% whether something is ok that was recommended by a vet specialist do not tell the member the vet is wrong. This is a perfect source of food for sick and malnourished frogs. It is packed with everything they need and is easily digested.

Lija and DV this technique is what saved Grif's life when she was ill. It must be a perscribed formula of the food though. You cannot buy it over the counter. It is only available through a perscription.


Clydefrogmom do not be afraid to call the Vet back for verification of what steps you need to take when it comes to husbandry. You are doing fine keep up what you are doing. Continue to offer food he can try and chase to entice him inbetween syringe feedings. This way he is given a chance to try and eat on his own.

[Lija]

Grif - and i said it is ok to feed frogs if that is what I'm thinking it is i fed mine like that too.

[GrifTheGreat]

Grif - and i said it is ok to feed frogs if that is what I'm thinking it is i fed mine like that too.

Ok then. I used Royal Canine brand and it was great.

[Lija]

Ok then. I used Royal Canine brand and it was great.

same one I'm talking about MediCal is royal canine vet. line.

[DVirginiana]

I wasn't told 'Critical Care' cat food, I was told 'Cat food'... The impression I was under was that the vet had basically given this person a can of catfood to syringe feed, and told them that moss was excellent bedding and coco-fiber was bad.

Knowing that it's THAT brand and not "some can of food", and that the vet probably DIDN'T say that pacs shouldn't be on cocofiber, I would say they probably do know what they're talking about.

[Lija]

DV i cant blame you, the whole thing sounds weird I personally like to get all facts first, like what has happened that frog needed vet and what is happening now, then we can advise properly, now it is just guess game.

but actually that MediCal recovery is better digested then nightcrawlers and in some cases can be the only hope provided it is fed properly.

[DVirginiana]

Just to explain where I was coming from, the 'cat food' thing is not an unreasonable thing to be paranoid about. I've heard vets recommend regular brand cat food as a staple for possums, turtles, and even garter snakes (which will cause serious problems in all three). Typically when I've had this recommended to me, or heard other people talking about it, it's from a vet who has little to no exotics experience.
I even had one vet recommend crickets (NOT a garter food item) to feed to my garters. It's just something I'm very paranoid about.

The way information was given made it sound like that was what was going on. Sorry for misinterpreting.

I'd still really like to see pictures of this frog/setup and get the specifics of what's going on with the care, as it seems that a lot the husbandry information may have been misinterpreted.

[DVirginiana]

MediCal recovery is better digested then nightcrawlers and in some cases can be the only hope provided it is fed properly.

lol okay, I didn't realize that's what was being given.

[clydefrogmom]

Sorry for the late reply all the questions. My friend had an emergency and I've been watching her baby.

The can food is canine/feline medical critical care food. .1 ml a few times a day. He takes it fine when I pick him up. He seems to like being picked up.

I tried a small waxworm...won't eat it, even forced.

the reason for the vet...four weeks we have had the frog and he has had zero to eat prior to the syringe feeding now. I tired crickets, worms...he never ate them.

When he hops it's almost a full limp as his back legs are not growing either...since he isn't eating.

the vet clarified with a call...it was moss he said no too...and that the coco fiber was too dry. He suggested wetting it down a ton before putting Clyde on it.

i have just the light in the room as his light. (ceiling light not close to the cage and he is on the opposite side of the room fm the window) I have a red heat bulb on all day/night. It's how the owner of a speciality store for amphibians and reptiles suggested. Clyde seems to like this better than having a day light directly on/near his cage.

Temp is 75-80 degrees and the humidity seems to stay mostly at 65-70

[Lija]

so no that bad i mean vet advice you know it is good you took him in.
there gotta be a reason he wasn't eating before, and I'm glad you feed him that food, a baby not eating for 4 weeks doesn't sound good.

please answer all questions of a sticky thread " trouble in the enclosure" and post them here we will try to help you. also humidity is too low, it has to be 75-80. pics of him and his legs would be useful too.

[clydefrogmom]

[Lija]

that is not a baby, how big he is now? also from what i see the tank is too big, way too dry and too open, you need to cover 3 sides of a tank not one.

still waiting for those answers

[clydefrogmom]

Taken with my iPad. Sorry it's to super clear