PLEASE HELP My frog is not eating and is having a weird eye issue

[M31AA]

My pacman frog Doughnut is the first frog I've ever had and I think I made some mistakes in taking care of him. At first everything was fine (I got him in November as a baby) and he was eating one or two crickets a day. Then in the last month or two I realized he was eating less and less. I would have to put the cricket close to him and guide it toward him so he'd eat it. I got him a heating pad in addition to his light (making the temperature about 80). It didn't seem to help.

Then recently, he began not eating at all. He started looking smaller. He would only eat when I dangled a cricket in front of him with tweezers, so that's what I did for a few days. He started looking better, until 4 days ago. I was brushing away the substrate near his mouth so I could feed him when out of nowhere he had this seizure. He kept twitching and twitching even more violently until he did this huge inhale and froze (all this time I'm watching in horror). He was all stiff and I thought he was dead. I put him in some water and he sort of "came back to life." Although he still twitches a bit when I try to move him (I touch him as little as possible but I have to when I change his water.) I researched it and it seems like he has/had Toxic Out Syndrome. I followed the directions for treating it and put him in water which I changed often (every 5 hours or so). He still twitches a little (not violently) and has gone stiff once.

Since that episode 4 days ago, he won't eat at all. I got him calcium, but since he won't eat the crickets I sprinkle with it, I have no way to get it into him. I'm going to try mealworms next, but I don't think he'll care... he never had a problem with crickets before. I've got his temperature up to 85-90. His eyes have been closed and he barely responds to anything. I think he is/was in estivation. Tonight, he opened one eye but the other has this weird glassy thing on it (see the picture).

So I have two questions: How can I get him to eat again? What is wrong with his eye?

I love this frog and I will do anything for him to get better because I feel like I've failed him.

EDIT: Oh and I've also switched to purified water in case the tap water is what was making him sick.

[Lija]

don't panic! but that doesn't look good. let's try to figure that out, and we need a better picture of a frog, his eye and enclosure. Please describe how you were treating him step by step and why did you think it was toxic out.
please answer trouble in the enclosure questions ( sticky thread) and post them here.

edit - don't try mealworms!

[M31AA]

It's really hard for me to get a picture of him because each time I touch him or try to move him he goes all stiff with his legs splayed out. Then he gradually "comes back to life." I'm really afraid he's not going to make it. He's in his water right now and I think if I took him out he'd just stay all stiff and die.

My first step of treating him was putting him in water. Then after reading about Toxic Out I immediately cleaned his bowl (I usually clean it frequently anyway), put in fresh warm water, and put him in it. I changed it every 4 or 5 hours (even during the night) until he seemed to be doing better (less twitchy). I still change it 1-3 times a day. I think it was toxic out because it's the only answer I got when looking up his symptoms.

1. Size of enclosure - Ten Gallon tank
2. # of inhabitants - Just the one frog
3. Humidity - I don't have a hygrometer, but I spray the sides of the tank for humidity and keep the substrate clean
4. Temperature - 85-90 (was colder before, mid 70s to 80s)
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish- Purified water (used tap water before)
6. Materials used for substrate - Coconut husk until today. I switched to spaghum peat moss in case the other stuff was bothering him
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. None
8. Main food source- Crickets
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) I got him some calcium recently to put on crickets but he hasn't eaten any
10. Lighting- 75 W bulb
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure 75 W bulb and heating pad underneath
12. When is the last time he/she ate Four days ago
13. Have you found poop lately- Not for a few weeks. Could he be impacted?
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog- I would say 5 months or so
16. How long have you owned him/her- almost 5 months
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred- Captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled- 1-3 times a day as gently and for as short a time as possible
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area Low traffic
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) I change his water 1-3 times a day and his substrate at least once a month

[Lija]

a lot of things needs to be changes asap, but it is saturday late pm and everything will be closed for you to get, so this is what you need to do today:
1. get him out of his enclosure and put in spring water ( the one they sell on bottles). do not use tap, purified or anything else, unless you have water conditioner and can use it for tap water.
if you have unflavoured pedyalite use it for a bath - at this point I would do 1 part of pedyalite, 6-8 parts of water. Water level should be no higher then frogs chin and water should be warm ( 80ishF). keep him for 20 min in there. keep an eye if he is having seizures make sure he won't drown.
2. while doing Nr. 1 take all substrate out, clean the enclosure very well, put some moisten with spring water paper towels, put some hide, water dish, like he used to have, except substrate. Water only spring for everything, water dish and spray too.
3. after bath put the frog in the enclosure.
3. inhale, exhale, repeat a few times, if you are drinking age, get some wine or something, but not too much, relax, not much more you can do today.

as well before you started to relax make sure you fix temps - 85-90 is total overkill, no more then 82 during a day, you want to keep adult frog at 75-78 ( night) and 80-82(day)

next post is going to be about tomorrow as soon as stores are open.

[GrifTheGreat]

Your frog needs a vet ASAP!

His eye is definitely infected. There is no way to know exactly what caused the injury, but it needs treatment. If you have been using tap water without any de-chlorinator then he most likely is suffering from toxing-out syndrome. Temps should not be over 84 for adults, 82 for babies or juveniles. The higher temps have most likely dehydrated him which will likely accelerate the toxing-out. Basically all of his systems are shutting down. Whether or not he can recover depends on how damaged his organs are. I highly recommend that you get to to a vet immediately. Follow Lija's instructions in the meantime. It is very important that we all learn from our mistakes. These frogs are not as easy to care for as is often lead to believe. They are very sensitive and small mistakes can be fatal.

Just some other notes: use coco fiber Not coco husk or moss (both can cause impaction). Calcium with D3 should be given about every other feeding and vitamins once a week (not on the same night - they prevent each other from being fully absorbed). Try nightcrawlers; they are the healthiest staple diet.

A vet will be able to discuss your best options and prescribe antibiotics for his eye. Please keep us posted.

[Lija]

I'll just go over your answers in bold
1. Size of enclosure - Ten Gallon tank OK
2. # of inhabitants - Just the one frog perfect!
3. Humidity - I don't have a hygrometer, but I spray the sides of the tank for humidity and keep the substrate clean - you need to fix it, get a hydrometer, place it in a dead center of an enclosure about 1" above the substrate
4. Temperature - 85-90 (was colder before, mid 70s to 80s) as i wrote before - that is very dangerous range, fix it immediately as i noted in previous post!
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish- Purified water (used tap water before) - change it starting now, get a water conditioner, anything that would remove chlorine and chloramine from a water, currently I'm using prime, it is for fish tanks, but works very well and lasts forever or you can use bottled natural spring water
6. Materials used for substrate - Coconut husk until today. I switched to spaghum peat moss in case the other stuff was bothering him. - use coco fiber ( ecoearth, plantation soi) expanded with treated tap water or spring water, make sure it is moist at all the times but not mud like.
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. None - get a hide of some sorts, handing artificial plant or anything really, so a frog can hide is he chooses to, it will help him feel more safe.
8. Main food source- Crickets - not the best food out there, try to switch him to nightcrawlers and roaches instead, when he start to eat.
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) I got him some calcium recently to put on crickets but he hasn't eaten any - when he starts eating again, make sure you dust Ca/vit3 supplements every second feeding and multivitamins once a week.
10. Lighting- 75 W bulb - that is a lot, for your enclosure use no more then 50W and have it on a dimmer, what type of lightning do you use - UVB/infrared/backing, etc? what is the distance between lamp bulb and a frog?
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure 75 W bulb and heating pad underneath. take UTH immediately! it has to be attached to the side never on a bottom.
12. When is the last time he/she ate Four days ago - not bad yet then
13. Have you found poop lately- Not for a few weeks. Could he be impacted? - pic of a frog from top would be helpful as well try to feel his side for hard big lumps, i highly doubt he is impacted, there is way more going on, but never say never.
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog- I would say 5 months or so
16. How long have you owned him/her- almost 5 months
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred- Captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled- 1-3 times a day as gently and for as short a time as possible that is too much handling! frog is look but not touch pet, it can be handled only when it is absolutely necessary with clean hands ( washed with treated water) or disposable non powdered gloves.
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area Low traffic
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) I change his water 1-3 times a day and his substrate at least once a month - to change water once a day is enough.


so as you see lot of things needs to be changed, please do so and be back with update. I would also go out and get reptiaid( reptiboost, he needs all electrolytes as he can get now.

[Lija]

I just add to what Grif has said- we all do mistakes, that is human, let's try to save Doughnut and hope for the best. there is always hope, the best you can do now is to not panic and try to do everything needed.

[M31AA]

Thanks to both of you for the advice. I'm following the directions and going out to get what stuff I can tonight. I'll make an appointment with the vet asap.
No one I've talked to has been able to give me this kind of advice, so I really appreciate it. I'm going to do eveything I can to see that he makes it.

EDIT: The light is infrared and it's resting on the top of the cage at least a foot away. I'm switching to the 50 W bulb I have right now.

[Lija]

you know we all have been there knowing nothing, seeking advice, people on this forum helped me keep my sanity when i was trying to save my very first frog lol very funny to remember my first questions...

no matter what will happen next, learn from it and way more, there are so much to learn! and then help many others who will need it.


and you are very welcome! just please keep us updated.

[Bruce]

You've been given great advice so far. However griff is right, he needs to see a vet, if anything for his eye. I'm almost willing to bet the seizures may have been causes by a bacterial infection, however toxing out syndrome is much more likely, and he developed the infection after. Possibly from substrate in his eye during the seizure?

Either way, that need to get cleared up or it could pose a serious health risk, even death. But focus on the advice given to you in the mean time.

[DVirginiana]

When you do go to the vet... Is it an exotics vet? Just a warning, you can go to a regular dog/cat vet to get antibiotics, but if you do that make sure you go in knowing exactly what you want (in this case, antibiotics for the eye).

[M31AA]

Ok, Doughnut is now in a bowl with 1 parts pedialite and 6 parts water, switched to the 50W bulb, his tank is cleaned and has moist paper towels instead of substrate, and I've used spring water for everything. Tomorrow I'm going to get Reptiaid, coco fiber substrate, and more spring water or a water conditioner.

I am scared to take him out of the water because when I do he stiffens up in a scary way. Is it ok to just leave him in there and let him get out if he wants to?

I know a vet who treats exotics but the clinic won't be open until Monday. I called the emergency vet and they don't treat frogs. I'm worried about taking him there if they won't know what to do. Do you think he will be okay until Monday? Is there anything I can treat his eye with right now to help him?

Also, how do I safely transport him in the car to the vet when I go?

EDIT: And thank you again. I really appreciate this because I feel so helpless and stupid right now.

[Bruce]

The best thing you can do is keep this up until Monday. I wouldn't take him to a bet that has no clue what they're doing.

I honestly don't know what you could put on his eye in the meantime... I'm sure someone more experienced with medication than I am will help with that question.

As for transporting him, a kritter keeper with moist paper towels at the bottom should do the trick. Might wanna strap it in and maybe use a little hide for him too. Just use to car heater to keep him from being too cold for the trip and you should be ok.

[DVirginiana]

DON'T put anything on his eyes until you take him to the vet. For infections in other areas of the body, neosporin withOUT painkillers can be used. If you're putting something on the eye it has to be a special opthalmic antibiotic. The vet may give you this, or he may give you an oral antibiotic. If he gives you an oral antibiotic, you may want to ask him to show you how to administer it since your frog isn't eating right now. We can describe how to do it, but it's better that you see it done.

Just make sure the eye doesn't dry out. If you keep the humidity up, this shouldn't be a problem.

[Lija]

so how it is going today? how is Doughnut feeling?

it is hard to say without seeing a frog and without clear pic of infected eye. Melafix works very well for frog eye infections. That medication is also used and works very well for bacterial and fungus fish diseases. if you look at fish section of the store it is in small blue bottle. you need to prepare proper dosage ( like for fish) i think it is 1 teaspoon (5ml) for 10 gallon, so you need to do it on a smaller scale for a frog. Eye infection is bad, but you need to fix other stuff first. Melafix in combination with anti-tox treatment that you started to do might be enough. Please make call exotic vet as soon as they open tomorrow and ask if you could get in asap, he will probably prescribe you systemic antibiotic too.

today if everything is going well so far, do same bath for a frog, feed him reptiaid, he will hate it change paper towels. Keep him on paper towels changing them every day until eye infection is done, you want to keep him as clean as possible.

[M31AA]

Today seems to be going better! I'm very happy because when I picked him up (with gloves) to change his water + pedialite (1 part to 6 parts water like you said) he didn't twitch at all or go stiff! I know this doesn't mean he's better but at least (it seems like) he hasn't gotten worse. The water I'm using for everything is spring water or water treated with the conditioner I got. I used 1/16 of a teaspoon (about 0.25 mL) for 10 liters because the bottle said 1 teaspoon (5 mL) for 10 gallons (38 L). It seemed like a ridiculously small amount so I hope I did it right.

He's still going to the vet which I'll call on Monday. There's only one vet at the clinic who sees exotics so I hope she'll be available. I'm making the reptiboost now and will change his paper towels. Thank you all again. I wish I'd come here sooner. Everyone in real life that I talked to just said "If he isn't eating, it's too cold or switch his food." :P But ultimately it's not their fault, it's mine for not doing enough research. So anyway, thank you again and I'll keep you updated. I'll also try to take a better picture of his eye.

[Lija]

sounds excellent! keep it up!

yeah, for conditioner it seems unreasonable small amount, just use according to instructions and you will be fine

[M31AA]

He took the Reptaboost unhappily, but at least it's in him now

Here are more pictures of his eye.

[Lija]

that looks bad, he might loose this eye, but as long as he is healthy it all that matters, let's hope for the best!

[mikesfrogs]

Its just an eye infection. Most fish medication works for it. You can do a few soaks in melaflix. You also need to dry him out. Your coco fiber was too moist and went bad. That's generally why this infection happens.

I dry the frog out and do the melaflix treatments. Just a couple drops. A vet may do it differently but that's what works for me and I've got thousands of pacmans

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