New to dart frogs, first vivarium!

[emandkel]

Green and bronze; and costa rican green and blacks are Auratus and group frogs -- one site even said you can keep 2 Auratus in a 10 gallon. Powder blues; and matechos are in the tinc family and it is my understanding per the research I've done they are territorial and need to be kept in pairs only no matter what the size of tank is, although it needs to be at least a 20 high for two. I'm new to dart frogs too, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

After more searching, some sites say Auratus can be territorial as well. I think the general rule even for group frogs is to allow at least 10 gallons per frog.

[flybyferns]

For the price of the monsoon mister you can get the standard mistking setup, but I would get the Ultimate kit with zip drip valve. You will thank me later

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Keister
It looks great !
I agree with Josh
Seriously, consider the mist king
http://www.mistking.com/Starter-Mist...tem-MKMSN.html
I can't imagine being without it
Lynn

[flybyferns]

Green and bronze; and costa rican green and blacks are Auratus and group frogs -- one site even said you can keep 2 Auratus in a 10 gallon. Powder blues; and matechos are in the tinc family and it is my understanding per the research I've done they are territorial and need to be kept in pairs only no matter what the size of tank is, although it needs to be at least a 20 high for two. I'm new to dart frogs too, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Good morning,
I agree with emandkel.

As for D. Tinctorius -- when young ...a group is okay. However, when they have matured, it will be necessary to pair them off and remove any extra frogs.
Good excuse to do another tank We are always looking for reasons for that !

I have read and have had many breeders say D auratus make great groups , without display of aggression. I suppose there could be the outside chance a bullying thing could develop ? Plenty of space will minimize this.
I have 4 green black D. auratus in an exo 18 x 18 x 24H - No difficulties , never witness any aggression... of any kind
In fact, they all trade off --snuggling with each other in their favorite little places
They do use ALL levels (of which are provided ) and appreciate their leaf litter
Mine are private and very shy. Their behavior is not nearly as entertaining as my imitators or my leucs.
I'm always so thrilled when they "pay me a visit".

Lynn

[flybyferns]

After more searching, some sites say Auratus can be territorial as well. I think the general rule even for group frogs is to allow at least 10 gallons per frog.

Agreed--space is key. ie If you had 4 ,for instance, in a vertical 10 gallon... then subtract the 'space'; the substrate, background, wood takes up.
Not much room left!

[DartEd]

From what I've read Auratus is a good group frog with very little aggression ... it is the tincs that can be aggressive with each other ... is this correct?

As I mentioned in my post above, females can be aggressive towards each other. Their aggression involves competition for male attention. That's why I recommended considering a 2:1 male to female ratio to avoid aggression. Females have been know to sit on other females while n water to drown them, eat each others eggs to force the male to breed again, and chase each other out of feeding areas. This leads to stressful conditions for the females and can definitely lead to death.

[DartEd]

Agreed--space is key. ie If you had 4 ,for instance, in a vertical 10 gallon... then subtract the 'space'; the substrate, background, wood takes up.
Not much room left!

I agree space is key. I also believe that line of sight is important as well. Creating little hiding places where they can escape each others line of sight will create less opportunity for female to female aggression. I agree with Lynn. 10 gallons is a bit small for a pair of these guys. A ten gallon is excellent for a grow out tank or an isolation tank prior to adding a specimen to your viv.

[Keister]

So what I think I am getting from this is, to make these guys group frogs you need a lot of space for them to kind of spread out? I think not having a lot in this tank could be made up for by them successfully breeding and getting new frogs out of them! I just think it would be awesome if I could get them to breed, lay eggs, have the tads, and then have those tads successfully make the transformation into baby frogs! I think you guys have swayed me into getting the mistking supreme kit..... I am looking at dropping over $400 just into making this vivarium right hahaha oh well whatcha gonna do!

[DartEd]

Wow. Wish I had that kind of expendable "frog"cash. I'm jealous. If you can afford the mistking, go for it. Its expandable so it wont become obsolete.

You don't need tons of space, just adequate space with appropriate hideaways for them. D.Auratus are great frogs and youll be super happy with them. Im considering a pair myself for my next build. I believe that breeding and raising any pet from infancy to healthy adulthood is one of the most satisfying experiences.

[emandkel]

So what I think I am getting from this is, to make these guys group frogs you need a lot of space for them to kind of spread out? I think not having a lot in this tank could be made up for by them successfully breeding and getting new frogs out of them! I just think it would be awesome if I could get them to breed, lay eggs, have the tads, and then have those tads successfully make the transformation into baby frogs! I think you guys have swayed me into getting the mistking supreme kit..... I am looking at dropping over $400 just into making this vivarium right hahaha oh well whatcha gonna do!

You had mentioned the monsoon ... I have 3 of them and all are turned off now, because for whatever reason, the monsoon started misting every few seconds, time after time, even when I had it set to go off every 8 hours or so. And I've read other reviews that say similar results or that it stopped working.

[Keister]

You had mentioned the monsoon ... I have 3 of them and all are turned off now, because for whatever reason, the monsoon started misting every few seconds, time after time, even when I had it set to go off every 8 hours or so. And I've read other reviews that say similar results or that it stopped working.

Ya I didn't even know there was such a thing as a mistking until they mentioned it, and I have now decided to buy the mist king supreme! I am so excited to get this vivarium set up, I am trying to make it look awesome! What should I use in the way of lighting and heating for this tank? I don't have all the money in the world and so I don't want the most expensive LEDs in the world or anything. Also do the darts need uv and if so would it be 5.0 or 2.0?

[J Teezy]

So what I think I am getting from this is, to make these guys group frogs you need a lot of space for them to kind of spread out? I think not having a lot in this tank could be made up for by them successfully breeding and getting new frogs out of them! I just think it would be awesome if I could get them to breed, lay eggs, have the tads, and then have those tads successfully make the transformation into baby frogs! I think you guys have swayed me into getting the mistking supreme kit..... I am looking at dropping over $400 just into making this vivarium right hahaha oh well whatcha gonna do!

I hope by this you are saying you are anxious about the life cycle of a frog and not getting into this for the means to try and breed frogs to just sell offspring.

By supreme mistking kit are you meaning the Ultimate www.mistking.com/ultimate-misting-system.html

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[Keister]

I hope by this you are saying you are anxious about the life cycle of a frog and not getting into this for the means to try and breed frogs to just sell offspring.

By supreme mistking kit are you meaning the Ultimate www.mistking.com/ultimate-misting-system.html

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Oh no that's not it at all. I find dart frogs quite beatiful and fascinating and it amazes me that such little creatures can have such vibrant and bold colorations and I just feel a sence of personal achievement whenever I am able to successfully get something to breed, like I have accomplished something. I got into stingrays for how beautiful and majestic they are, they can have such fascinating colorations and patterns and the way they swim just drew me into them. Making money and selling baby dart frogs has nothing to do with me wanting to get these guys at all. I like to expand my knowledge as much as possible regarding animals because I am just fascinated with the way things live and interact and carry on their lives. I have had and breed various different animals and fish and I have never gotten into amphibians at all and we got two dart frogs in at my work from a local breeder and that was it, I was sold. I now contacted the breeder and am lining up two green and bronze darts and they will be my new babies. I am putting their Viv on my night stand so I can watch them while I lay in bed hahaha. I watch the darts at work every free second I get because of I am just mezmorized while i watch them! So no I am not getting into darts for the idea of breeding and selling but rather for their natural beauty and majesty. Oh ya sorry that's the mistking I'm getting I thought it was called the supreme my fault.

[Keister]

Sorry for the double post but what should I use in the way of lighting for this?

[J Teezy]

i couldn't be happier with the Jungle Dawn 13w LED bulbs. Great light output and bring out the color in my plants

[DartEd]

The jungle dawn lights are great if you wanna go higher end. On the lower end you can use 4500k to 6000k rated cfl bulbs. They keep things warm and provide perfect lighting for good plant growth.

[helm96]

I am using a 18" T5 fixture with a 6500K daylight bulb and my plants are growing like weeds. I am clipping back the plants once a week. This is a pretty cheap setup, I think I spent about $25 per tank for the lighting and the price to the result I could not be happier!

[Keister]

I have decided to go ahead and get two of the jungle dawn 13 watt LED fixtures so I can do this right.

[deranged chipmunk]

The jungle dawn lights are great if you wanna go higher end. On the lower end you can use 4500k to 6000k rated cfl bulbs. They keep things warm and provide perfect lighting for good plant growth.

4500k is a bit low for most tropicals. too much "red". while they will grow, you won't get the healthy growth you would from say a 6500-8000k bulb.

[Keister]

2 jungle dawn LEDs would be good for this 29 gallon correct?

[DartEd]

4500k is a bit low for most tropicals. too much "red". while they will grow, you won't get the healthy growth you would from say a 6500-8000k bulb.

After doing a bit more research, I agree that 4500 Kelvin is a bit low on the color spectrum. That being said, most articles do recommend 5000 k to 6500K with 5500 K to 6500K being referred to as the "sweet spot".


"Choosing the best plant grow lights depends on the types of plants being grown and the purpose for which they are being grown. Plants vary on the colors of light they prefer, but it usually is in the 5,600 Kelvin (K) range of natural daylight, and Kelvin ratings are sometimes imprinted on light packaging. The intensity level of the light and the ideal amount of light vs. dark hours in a day also vary per plant species. Ornamental plants require less intense light in the blue range of the spectrum, versus fruiting and flowering plants that mature best under red- and yellow-tinted light that simulates the end of the growing season..."

Excerpt from How Do I Choose the Best Plant Grow Lights?

ive found that 8000K and above generally apply to aquarium applications for plant growth.

New England Herpetoculture LLC - Vivarium Lighting 101 here's an article on viv listing as well as a place to order lights