is this a sign of MBD or something different

[lynnsey]

I have an adult male pacman who was fed calcium as a baby but then once he stoped growing he hasn't been fedcalcium for about 6 months. Not my decision..I just took him from the original owner cuz they couldn't care for him anymore. His back leg is noticeably swollen around hip/thigh/knee area and its almost feels as if the hip and knee are dislocated but they aren't. The swollen area around the hip is hard like the hip bone by socket is bigger or bulging out. By his knee he has a red bump/abcess looking wound and that is also hard under the skin like by the hip. His leg moves fine and he still uses it so obviously his hip and knee aren't dislocated. He doesn't favor it and it doesn't seem to bother him but something is def wrong. He hasn't been dropped or smashed. Eats worms...has bead a beast..in a 10 gallon tank..has heat pad on bottom..temps are in the 75-78 range and humidity is in the 80% range..goes up to 85 when adding. More moisture to beda beast. His substrate is always damp..not swampy but clumpy. He has a water dish and a clay pot to hid under along with a big fake broad leaf plant to hide the pot. He is by himself and is now getting calcium starting today when I got him. He ate 4 night crawlers with calcium. I soaked him in calcium water as well..not sure if he would absorb that but figured it couldn't hurt. He has a light but its strictly for light and not heat. His substrate he can bury in but chooses to sit under the pot in a little divit he made in substrate where its warmest. He doesn't have red on his legs or body. And other than swollen leg and the one bump he seems perfectly fine. He was given and still is given spring water.

[lynnsey]

[Lija]

don't overfeed his with Ca, excess Ca is as bad as luck of it. Having said that what he is having now has nothing to do with Ca whatsoever.

that is what you need to do immediately. take him out of his enclosure asap and put him into bath with unflavoured pedyalite ( 1 part of pedyalite), 10 parts of treated water. apply original polysporin without painkillers on a wound, after place him in hospital tank on clean moist paper towels with sort of a hide, keep him as clean as can, apply polysporin 2-3 times for 2 days and see how it goes. monitor very closely for any unusual behavior.
if it is getting worse or stays the same seek experienced with frogs vet asap.

in case you don't have pedyalite and original polyporin, just get him washed out of substrate, place him in a hospital set up and go get the stuff.

[Lija]

read one more time your first post. i missed a few things.
take the heater from a bottom immediately it should never be placed here, only on a side, temps are too low as well, you want to keep him at 80-82(day), 76-78(night)

to get to the bottom of things and going forward, would you please questions in the trouble in the enclosure thread and post your answers here.

[GrifTheGreat]

Place the frog in a quarentine tank immediately after washing off.the frog with dechlorinated water that is luke warm. Instead of Neosporin use Bactine. It is much safer and more affective.

Keep the frog warm around 78° to 80° at all times. Use paper towels as substrate and.change them daily. Your frog needs a Vet NOW! This is beyond your ability to treat in house. Make sure the UTH is placed on the side of the tank not the bottom. Keep a shallow bowl of clean dechlorinated water in the quarentine tank with the frog and change it daily.

Seek Veterinary assitance immediately. The frog needs antibiotics. keep us posted.

[lynnsey]

Place the frog in a quarentine tank immediately after washing off.the frog with dechlorinated water that is luke warm. Instead of Neosporin use Bactine. It is much safer and more affective.

Keep the frog warm around 78° to 80° at all times. Use paper towels as substrate and.change them daily. Your frog needs a Vet NOW! This is beyond your ability to treat in house. Make sure the UTH is placed on the side of the tank not the bottom. Keep a shallow bowl of clean dechlorinated water in the quarentine tank with the frog and change it daily.


Seek Veterinary assitance immediately. The frog needs antibiotics. keep us posted.

I can do the quarantine tank but the closest herp vt according to what I found on internet is 3 hours away and I am 39 weeks pregnant and cannot make that drive. My husband was just discharged from hospital today after having a shoulder replacement surgery Monday and he can't drive for 6 weeks so I am kind of between a rock and a hard place. What exactly is wrong with him...infection that spread to bone/joints? Do you know what antibiotics I would need? When my bearded dragon got an upper respiratory due to being neglected from a previous owner I couldn't find a vet to treat her and I ended up losing her sadly....I live in the most inconvenient place for owning reptiles and amphibians. No pet stores except petsmart and that 40 min away...only small and large animal vets..no exotics.

How did he get the infection? Or what could have caused it...should I try the bactine and quarantine tank and hope for the best?

[MatthewM1]

You should keep him on wet paper towels changed daily and apply neosporin WITHOUT pain reliever to the area with a q-tip. The one with pain reliever will kill your frog. You need to keep that area clean. You may want to consider going to a vet, probably some kind of infection

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[DeeDub]

What is it?

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Thanks
DW

[DeeDub]

I would say yes to your last question. Sounds like you don't have a choice. That sucks. Good luck.

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Thanks
DW

[lynnsey]

[QUOTE=DeeDub;165265]I would say yes to your last question. Sounds like you don't have a choice. That sucks. Good luck.

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Thanks....I know here I was trying to help him and find out that its more serious than I thought...it does suck..I want to try and save him still but don't want him to suffer and me not know...how can u tell a frog is in pain? Is it pointless or does he have a chance as long as he is active and eating? Is it something bactine can cure or is it hopeless without antibiotics?

[Lija]

Thanks....I know here I was trying to help him and find out that its more serious than I thought...it does suck..I want to try and save him still but don't want him to suffer and me not know...how can u tell a frog is in pain? Is it pointless or does he have a chance as long as he is active and eating? Is it something bactine can cure or is it hopeless without antibiotics?

it is not that serious, he will be fine with proper treatment, have you had a ruptured abscess yourself? like bad pimple, that is what this is, but because he is a frog and small, it makes it more serious and require immediate treatment while his systems are not shutting down.

[GrifTheGreat]

it is not that serious, he will be fine with proper treatment, have you had a ruptured abscess yourself? like bad pimple, that is what this is, but because he is a frog and small, it makes it more serious and require immediate treatment while his systems are not shutting down.

Lija this is not the same as an absess on a human. The size of this blister in comparison to the frog's size plus the swelling all the way to the hip. This is bad. If the blister bursts it may spread into the blood stream causing the frog to become septic.

What is Flamazine? Not every topical ointment is safe for amphibians. Stick with those you know. Bactine is 100% sace and possibly the best option. Your frog needs Baytril which you can get from a vet, but they will need to weigh the frog to give proper dosage. It may also be added to a bath, but the dosage is higher because it will be diluted. The problem with Baytril is that it causes muscle necrosis which is bad, but sometimes the risks do not outweight the pros of the treatement. Baytril is an antibiotic that also stimulates appetite.

Contact a vet and see if they will assist you.

[Lija]

Grif pretty close as far as description goes for people to understand yes it can become septic that is why I'm saying it needs treatment now.

flamazine is veterinary grade topical silver sulfadiazine cream ( 1%), not sure if this available through vet only or can be purchased elsewhere. that stuff promotes healing along with antibacterial action. it is safe for frogs, actually I'm using it for humans as well

[DeeDub]

IMO the pain is prob. Not really an issue. Nothing you can do about it either way. Wish I had an answer for ya. Griff will check in shortly I'm sure and can give top notch advice.

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Thanks
DW

[MatthewM1]

http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?p=111209

That post has the email of a vet who is experienced with amphibians and will work through email. I have never used him myself but have read from other members that he is very good. I dot know what his prices are like either.

If I had to guess I would say it sounds like the infection is spreading and causing the swelling. Otc treatments might slow the spread but I really dont think they can heal it at this point

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[Lija]

Matthew is right, you should contact Dr. Frye if you don't have any other options, but it will take a few days at least probably, the frog needs treatment now. I personally would wait for a day applying localized treatment using systemic drugs as a last resort.
have you set it in hospital tank and put polysporine/bactrine on? flamazine would be the best to use, not sure if it is available to you)

do you have any vet close? I would call them and ask if they can prescribe your frog antibiotics, they should have access to VIN to check the dosage, or i can pm it to you to tell them if you want.

[Heatheranne]

Yes, that is definitely an abscess of some type.

Dr.Frye is going to be your best bet. You can call him. He will want you to email a photo. He will prescribe medication that can be sent to you via mail.

Being the size of the abscess, I don't think only topical antibiotics will be enough to treat the infection. He will need systemic antibiotics.

It really is nice of you to take him/her.

[DVirginiana]

If there's a cat/dog vet you can get to, you can usually get the antibiotics you need from them. Just talk to Dr. Frye first and see what antibiotic and dosage he recommends. Most small animal vets I've talked to will 'treat' exotics by giving you the meds if you come in knowing pretty much exactly what you need.

Good luck and keep us posted. Don't know if it has been mentioned, but it may be a good idea to change out the paper towels every day or every other day... If that abcess is leaking pus (filled with bacteria) into a warm, wet tank, then those paper towels could become a breeding ground for whatever the infection is REALLY fast.

[lynnsey]

Thanks everyone for the reply and help...I called round today and no vets here can help me.. the closest they do is iguanas and beardies...depending on what's wrong...I called the 2 vets that were 3+ hours away and can't afford the vet visit let alone the meds let alone the gas money. Hubby has been out of work since august when he messed up shoulder and just got the surgery on 25th..we have a 2 yr old and another due ony day now...but I have a induction for the 6th scheduled if no baby before then. Plus 5 cats and 4 dogs to look after...
I am at a loss on what to do...I feel bad trying to help him and getting in to deep..didn't think it was this serious

What do I do now? Do I humanely euthanize before he suffers and gets worse? Do I try the quarantine tank and bactine or is he too far gone for that to even help? I feel terrible but want to do the best and do what I can. Sadly I cannot get the proper vet care as the vets here don't even want to attempt it. And if they did I don't know if I could afford it.

I feel terrible and defeated

[Lija]

I'm so sorry Lynnsey, I can imagine how you feel, don't feel terrible, you do what you can and you care about that frog despite you have so much on your plate right now.
have you asked your local vets if they can sell you baytril to be used on your own risk? if they have no clue when it comes to frogs that is ok, all you need are meds and very small amount of it for them to charge a lot, my guess it shouldn't be more then 20$ and of course in your situation I would never drive for 3+ hours one way. when i was due with a second one i was told to keep my distance no more then 30 min drive to the hospital
look he is active and eating, right? so it is not too late then. have you called Dr. Frye? he is your best shot, he can send you antibiotics and meanwhile you can to treat with bactrine and keep him very clean.