giant vs dwarf

[Lija]

need to pick up your brains

so, giant vs dwarf, differences other then size/appearance/genetic code?
same husbandry, same geographic area more or less.
we all know that mixing frog species is no-no in captivity and that giants as well as dwarfs can be housed in groups, thus question, can those species be housed together in a big enough enclosure, provided frogs are big enough to not become food for each other ? what do you think? as well do you think or have any information if crossbreeding is possible given that they are so close genetically.

[Wicked frogs]

I would not mix my dwarf and giant in the same encloser.

[Lija]

yeah, if i had both species i wouldn't too, I'm looking for why's and can't think of anything yet. usually the reasons for not mixing species are different geographic area, thus different husbandry requirements, possibly becoming food for each other, different toxins.
I was thinking genetically close species can live together and even have offsprings, provided of course the enclosure if big enough, say different king snakes species can interbreed, you can have F2 and so on, so why not african bullfrogs.

[Bruce]

Keeping giants together and dwarfs together is possible if you know what your doing and keep them fed. However I'd be cautious keeping the giants and dwarfs together, especially dwarfs with large, aggressive male giants.

[GrifTheGreat]

yeah, if i had both species i wouldn't too, I'm looking for why's and can't think of anything yet. usually the reasons for not mixing species are different geographic area, thus different husbandry requirements, possibly becoming food for each other, different toxins.
I was thinking genetically close species can live together and even have offsprings, provided of course the enclosure if big enough, say different king snakes species can interbreed, you can have F2 and so on, so why not african bullfrogs.

They do have very minimal climate differences, but its so miniscule that it doesn't matter. Cannibalism would be a problem. Most likely the GABF will grow faster than the DABF and possibly see it as a snack. No matter how large the enclosure they will eventually run into each other.

[Lija]

see that is why I'm not finding any whys except possible cannibalism, that is an issue keeping same species frogs together too, big males will eat small ones ( or attempt to), big males will bully smaller ones and so on.
if eliminate that factor and keep animals close in size, say a male dwarf and females giants or females of both species. or small giant male with big dwarf....

[GrifTheGreat]

see that is why I'm not finding any whys except possible cannibalism, that is an issue keeping same species frogs together too, big males will eat small ones ( or attempt to), big males will bully smaller ones and so on.
if eliminate that factor and keep animals close in size, say a male dwarf and females giants or females of both species. or small giant male with big dwarf....

Bullying isn't only done by large males. A large female is just as likely to bully a smaller male or female. Each species of frog has their own secretions as well so you should take that into consideration. These two species may live close together, but as far as I know they don't hang out together in the same water holes or anywhere close.

I'm not going to say don't do it, but I myself would not.

[Herpguy]

I really don't think that cannibalism is as big an issue with these frogs as people think. I have never witnessed nor heard of cannibalism actually happening when adult or even subadult specimens are concerned, and I have seen pretty huge size differences kept together. I really wouldn't push it with keeping a female dwarf and a male adspersus together, but I don't see why these species couldn't be kept together. I would be willing to bet that interbreeding could happen genetically speaking, but physically, it would be impossible. These species have such different methods of reproduction that they really would not be compatible. It would only happen if somebody used manual fertilization.

[GrifTheGreat]

I really don't think that cannibalism is as big an issue with these frogs as people think. I have never witnessed nor heard of cannibalism actually happening when adult or even subadult specimens are concerned, and I have seen pretty huge size differences kept together. I really wouldn't push it with keeping a female dwarf and a male adspersus together, but I don't see why these species couldn't be kept together. I would be willing to bet that interbreeding could happen genetically speaking, but physically, it would be impossible. These species have such different methods of reproduction that they really would not be compatible. It would only happen if somebody used manual fertilization.

I believe the youngsters and juviniles are the cannibals, not so much the adults and subadults.

[DeeDub]

Herp, I've told you about my cohabitants. Bruce is right, it takes extra attention and care to prevent bites during feeding in adults. Never had cannibalism, but had them bite each other. Females would bite the male (they were by far more aggressive feeders) and the one time I saw my big guy bite and flip one of the females I decided mass feeding frenzies were a no go. My male would amplex my females as well. This posed a risk of drowning for the females with my water feature.

I also am a proponent of people doing what they want, and won't tell you not to (nor would I judge regardless of outcome). If you set it up right, and pay attention you could keep them together.

-----------------
Thanks
DW

[cyris69]

ive had my giant and dwarf together for a very long time no issues but it takes extra watching and care for sure. Never any sign of aggression.

[Herpguy]

Yeah Deedub, I know that yours got along very well except for the fact they got carried away during feeding. I just don't think that cannibalism is going to happen during their day to day activities. Even during feeding they would probably let go if they accidentally grabbed, but I can't know for sure, because I feed my males separately.

[DeeDub]

I agree 100%.

-----------------
Thanks
DW

[African bullfrogs]

Me too. I have completely different sized pixies in 1 tank and they do just fine together

[DeeDub]

Lol....if they do cannibalize each other its going to happen with that size difference AB. keep that female well fed.

-----------------
Thanks
DW

[cyris69]

I agree with DeeDub on that one, I wouldn't risk keeping that little one in there.

[Bruce]

Yeah that's a bit if a size difference. Either take him out for a few weeks or keep her very fat and happy

[Lija]

ive had my giant and dwarf together for a very long time no issues but it takes extra watching and care for sure. Never any sign of aggression.

thank you guys, that is pretty much what i was looking for, a discussion on whys and how. So it looks like that dwarf and giant can be housed together, provided they are similar in size and that you know what you're doing, but same would go to housing several dwarfs or giants together. my gut feeling though says that one frog per enclosure should be a general rule, I'm a bit on better safe then sorry side.