White's Tree Frog having trouble with his back legs - advice needed please.

[Bolisnide]

Hey everyone, hopefully somebody here can help us ...

We noticed one of our white's tree frogs having trouble moving his back legs yesterday. His toes were curling up and his legs seemed really stiff, like it was difficult for him to move them. We took him out and had a look at him, but he looks normal, no discolourations or redness anywhere. We made sure he had plenty water and dusted crickets in the tank and left him so as to not stress him out.

He slept normally on the glass wall of the tank, toes spread out and legs tucked in, but tonight his legs seemed to be in the same state. I took him out and within a few minutes he was holding himself up and hopping around the table, but when I put him in some lukewarm water with a little honey to try to bathe him, he freaked out, his legs started twitching and he was lying on his tummy. I lifted him out and he seems much happier sitting on the ground, if moving much more slowly than normal.

We have two white's and there seems to be nothing wrong with the other one, he's constantly hungry and flinging himself towards anything that moves, also very alert and bathing just fine. It's possible, since Ritty (the one we're worried about) has always been a bit littler than Bertie, that he doesn't get quite as much to eat.

He behaved like this a couple of months ago, we thought it was because it had been too cold for them and after plenty water and food and the heating turned up, he was fine. But maybe that wasn't the problem?

He ate one cricket yesterday but doesn't seem interested in food today.

The tank set up is below. Bertie is the brown one on the vine, Ritty the green one on the ground. They've always been these colours. We've had them for eight months so they're 9 - 10 months old.



1. 30 gallon enclosure
2. 2 white's, same age (9 - 10 months) and very close in size
3. no hygrometer but I'd guess between 60-70%
4. temperature 70-75F
5. spring water in two soaking dishes and for misting twice a day
6. orchid bark for substrate
7. one plastic vine, two plastic plants, one branch
8. fed crickets and locusts, alternating every few weeks
9. calcium the food every second feeding
10. no lighting within the tank but constant day-night hours are kept
11. heat mat covering about a quarter of the tank floor
12. Ritty ate at least one cricket yesterday and was seen hunting and eating three locusts 5 days ago
13. difficult to monitor who the poop belongs to but there hasn't been as much lately

17. living in the UK, I would assume the frogs are captive bred, but I don't know for sure

19. Bertie prefers being handled, every two weeks or so, Ritty more rarely than once a month
20. low traffic area
21. Spot check every week or when dirt is obvious. Everything taken out and cleaned with boiling spring water, substrate changed, once every two months. Water change twice every three days.

I have *no idea* what would cause a frog's hind legs to act this way, sorry.
But one thing pops up at me that may be an issue?
Do you bowl feed the crickets and locust? Or do the frogs hunt their own food? The substrate you're using could cause an impaction risk if swallowed. White's are notorious for dive bombing their food, and the substrate must be indigestible if feeding that way. Something like coco fiber or paper towels.
If you bowl feed, then nevermind...
Otherwise the behavior could be neurological? I see you're dusting with calcium, so I don't think MBD is an issue...
Do you have a vet nearby?

[Sasha]

I agree with Bolisnide on the substrate. Even if you bowl feed a cricket could get loose and there's a chance your frog will ingest the bark. I'm not sure about frogs but I know that with bearded dragons if they have an impaction they could have paralysis in their legs.

I would quarantine him from the other frog. And dust crickets daily with calcium w/D3. Clean the water and food bowls daily. Find a vet.

I had a white's tree frog with a similar problem, I would find her with stiff straight legs. By the time I found a vet that would see her she was having seizures and I would find her on her back in her water bowl. Fecal showed parasites and we treated her and her tank mate for that. She was too small to get any blood work from to see see if she had any deficencies. Even though I dusted daily, the vet said that her reflexes and posture looked like MBD. I was convinced it was neurological.



About your enclosure ....try positioning the vine and the plants up high in the tank. Whites tree frogs like to climb and be up high.

[flybyferns]

Sorry
Patsy and Lindsey have given you excellent advice.
You do what to switch substrate..........to cocoa fiber instead.

Please let us know :
WATER! - what water are you using- It must always be de- chlorinated
EXACTLY- which calcium product are you using.

This sound like it could be symptoms of MBD- (even know you have been dusting )
It could be as a result of some food competition?
I wood remove this frog and put it into into own little 'hospital' tank
A seperate take will enable him to eat well and you will be ablt to do treatment soak, monitor food intak and poop.
Feed him well, and daily for a while-- make sure his feeder is not too large
Do the pedi alternated w/ honey soaks for a couple days.
Do the homey soak first so the frog can rinse in the pedi soak.

In the link below ... toward the bottom of the post information about a rescue product for calcium deficiency:
You might get an order placed for this --just to have on hand. Please read all about if first.
You might seriously consider taking this little guy to a herp vet !
Fluker's Liquid Calcium

Instructions for the soaks/quarantine are here:
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-supplies.html

Note:
I see you have your 'country' as Scotland.
In the US plain Pedialyte is a electrolyte replacement used sick children and infants.
Here it is found in any supermarket or pharmacy. I'm not sure of the Brand name of a product like this if you live live Scotland.
It's likely there thought, it's made by Abbott Pharmaceuticals.

Keep in touch-Lynn