Whites Tree Frog in trouble..Please help!

[Heatheranne]

just took him out to the table =/ he threw up some yellow liquid =( I dont know what to think.

Let his stomach rest today. Give him a pedi/honey soak for the electrolytes. (Follow with a brief regular lukewarm soak to rinse the honey off.) When was the last time he are and didn't throw it up?

Lynn is right. You'll need to get a hold of the vet Monday morning. He's a tough one, but you'll need further vet assistance.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Hi Lisa,
I read your entire post # 93.

A pedi or honey dip will not hurt him.
This little guy is a fighter!

He was eating very steadily with us for a week. He ate about 2 every other day or every other 2 days, but then he started throwing them back up. Our vet had suggested we give it to him an extra week when we called him since he still seemed a little bloated and not pooping. He said it shouldnt hurt him. When he started going into overtime with the baytril was when we noticed the throwing up.


His symptoms of anorexia and regurgitation( vomiting) need to be discussed with your vet. I would resume the baytril ( as recommended) , or call the vet on Monday. He is not throwing up because he is full. The vomiting is an important symptom to talk to the vet about as it could be a symptom of other or another parasite(s)?

Hes been in that hospital tank for at least 3 weeks now......and no poop
This could be because he is not eating and / or not digesting his food?

What other antibiotic treatment was given besides baytirl?

Lynn

He was not given anything other than the baytril. the vet was hoping to get a fecal after the initial bacterial infection was over. I will call the vet again. I am starting to think perhaps he doesnt know whats wrong with my little guy =/ We did resume the baytril for most of that week and only stopped a 2 days short (when we got scared) so he nearly had an extra full week of the baytril as prescribed making a total of 2 weeks and 5 days on the baytril. The only reason we decided to stop was because we thought maybe that was why he was throwing up. Anyone know from any other threads what would cause the vomiting? Is it definitely a parasite because then I feel bad we did not press for the medication for that. He mentioned he may have a parasite but he wanted us to get a fecal sample before we just start putting him on other medications. Unfortunately..it doesnt look like we are going to be able to get a fecal from him =( I feel like I am at a standstill.

[flybyferns]

Hi Lisa,
I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble with this poor little guy You're a trooper!

I believe the vet may treat him for parasites without a fecal ?
I can understand why the vet suggested to keep going , perhaps thinking a few more days may make that difference?
I'm sorry I do not know if vomiting is a symptom of the Baytril? I suppose it's possible?
Baytril is a strong antibiotic. It's simple - either it works or it doesn't. Perhaps that is the vet is trying to determine?
So keeping in touch with your vet is a great idea as I'm sure the vet will know what to do next.
Especially when kept up to date regarding how your frog is currently doing.
Can you email your vet? If so, this is a great way to give precise /dated/ details.
Plus the vet can ponder on the information you provide.

I am, however, certain vomiting is a symptom of more than one type of a parasitic infestation.
Other symptoms could include less activity, no appetite , and even blood in the poop
One type of parasite called nematodes initially causes diarrhea. If left untreated, the infestation can spread to the lungs and cause respiratory distress.

His antibiotic could be changed also?
There is another ( Metronidizole ) that will simulate his appetite.

I have ( under a vets recommendation) used metro and panacur ( parasitic treatment) at the same time to treat a black eyed tree frog. Initially it was done WITHOUT a fecal because the frog was so sick. I had to force feed this frog and use reptiboost for 7 weeks. I can sympathize with you; this is hard work.

Keep us posted
Lynn

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Hi everyone. Just got off the phone with the vet. He is mixing us some Metronidizole. He instructed us to give it orally..which should be fun. He warned us again that this medicine given orally could cause him to throw up his stomach =/. I was wondering if you guys can look at the pictures I posted last time. Did it look like the spots came back to you? They've disappeared again I believe. Was he just changing colors? What do you think? Is it only the green spots if they stay on him for weeks? because that never happened =/ I hope I did not give the wrong information when I started this post. I am just concerned because I was told to use bleach on his real cage so his friend Koko did not get the infection..which he hasn't. We never used bleach on his hospital tank when he felt better =(. We've been using soap and water. We did however change his paper towel everyday and used very hot water when rinsing. I am hoping that we did not mess up! We are trying so hard.

[flybyferns]

Hi Lisa,
I'm so confused?
Metro is typically dropped onto the frog's back ? ( like the baytril)

Has Dr Frye been treating your frog?

[Heatheranne]

Metro is a good medication. I have used it for most of my rescues. My vet always had me give it via topical drops also.

At this point you can just wipe the hospital tank down with hot dechlorinated water. Of course, be careful not to burn your little fella. I would soak Twiggy in his pedialyte dilution soak (in a mini critter keeper with a air-vented lid) while I cleaned out his cage. I had pre-made boiled dechlorinated water and put it into an empty spring water jug and allowed it to cool a bit. I'd use it to wipe out the enclosure daily with paper towels. I used the same pre-made water from the jug to mist his tank and new paper towels, and to fill his water bowl with (also changed daily). I used the water to moisten his paper towel for picking him up to feed him too. The goal was to minimize bringing in any new bacteria into his hospital tank. I would put Twigs back in when the tank was cool. I'd also wash my hands and put on powder-free gloves before doing any tank care, and again wash them when done. Diluted 10% bleach is fine to use, but you have to rinse very thoroughly and then rinse again with dechlorinated water.

Tree frogs change color. Spots and/pr patchy discolorations are generally an infection of some type. They will persist and likely worsen until properly treated.

The normal changing of colors can briefly make them look mottled or patchy, which could look like infection. How you will know, is the color change will finish making them look "normal" again, along with proper eating, pooping, soaking and they will have normal activity levels, energy, mobility, sleep/wake cycles and no further skin discolorations or lesions. Essentially they will look and act normal after the skin color change.

Even the way the light reflects on them or areas of shading from light can alter their colors. They will always return to a overall same shade of green when the lighting or darkness is even against them.

Here are some examples of the ways the light hits them differently and the way they can alter their skin as camouflage. It's quite amazing really.

Is this photo you can see Serena's solid green hue (minus her "freckles" )...


In this photo you can see the bluish color where the lighting is brightest from that side of the tank...


Here you can see he has 3 different shades of green...


This photo is a good example of a color change in progress, incomplete. Here it looks as of he has an infection, though he does not and he finished the color change within a few minutes.


We have to monitor our frogs behavior and eating/defecating habits along with assessing their skin to determine when something is wrong. Skin alterations that persist throughout the day are cause for immediate alarm and need to be treated quickly. A good time to observe their skin is when they're asleep and late at night when they are hunting. It gives you 2 color variations to compare. Now, keep in mind I have a retf. Most tree frogs can exhibit the same color changing responses. Skin alterations tend to show up most when the frog is dark. Another thing to be aware of is when green frogs tend to linger in a dark brown discoloration when they are not against a brown background, it could be a sign that they are stressed and/or sick. Still though, behaviors will help to determine such.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Hi all! No Dr. Frye is not treating my frog. I had emailed him in the beginning, but found a local vet who looks at frogs since my situation seemed severe and I didn't think I had time to wait for treatment via mail.

When I had arrived at the vet it he had a change of plans. My vet contacted a Dr. Gentz who is his "go to" guy for reptiles/amphibians and got a second opinion. This is what the two of them came up with for my baby:

He gave us the Metronidazole in a powder form. Instead of giving it to him orally, he wants us to prepare a bath with it and gave us instructions to mix the powder in a liter of water (it says on the paper he gave me that its a 50mg/L bath) and soak him in it for 12-24 hrs. This is what I am supposed to give to him tomorrow.

I was also given Ivermectin which I was instructed to give him today when I got home. I was to give him one drop of this on his back and then get rid of the rest as he only needs one drop (the one time dose of this was 2mg/kg).

It says these doses are from "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" which is available from the VIN bookstore. (This info is from a printout of the email between both my vet and Dr. Gentz..which my vet gave to me when we saw him today)

My vet assured me that this is pretty much an all encompassing parasite treatment. After this..he said I should have one sterile little frog. I hope this does it! Lemme know what you guys think! Ugh I just want him to be better. I've already promised him a huge cage when he turns around for some extra encouragement lol.

[flybyferns]

Hi all! No Dr. Frye is not treating my frog. I had emailed him in the beginning, but found a local vet who looks at frogs since my situation seemed severe and I didn't think I had time to wait for treatment via mail.

When I had arrived at the vet it he had a change of plans. My vet contacted a Dr. Gentz who is his "go to" guy for reptiles/amphibians and got a second opinion. This is what the two of them came up with for my baby:

He gave us the Metronidazole in a powder form. Instead of giving it to him orally, he wants us to prepare a bath with it and gave us instructions to mix the powder in a liter of water (it says on the paper he gave me that its a 50mg/L bath) and soak him in it for 12-24 hrs. This is what I am supposed to give to him tomorrow.

I was also given Ivermectin which I was instructed to give him today when I got home. I was to give him one drop of this on his back and then get rid of the rest as he only needs one drop (the one time dose of this was 2mg/kg).

It says these doses are from "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" which is available from the VIN bookstore. (This info is from a printout of the email between both my vet and Dr. Gentz..which my vet gave to me when we saw him today)

My vet assured me that this is pretty much an all encompassing parasite treatment. After this..he said I should have one sterile little frog. I hope this does it! Lemme know what you guys think! Ugh I just want him to be better. I've already promised him a huge cage when he turns around for some extra encouragement lol.

This is great ! great !
The Ivermectin is perfect.
Please let me know how he is after the Ivermectin treatment!

You have done so much!
You get the Super Frogger awared

[xXxHeavenxXx]

aww thanks!! I don't know what I would do without you guys and your endless support..

BUT HOLY POOP! I just saw him moving around and was curious what he was up to..and HES POOPING!!!! right now!! at least somethings trying to come out..we will see!

[xXxHeavenxXx]

kinda looks like hes having a hard time =/ looks a little watery..and its not coming out..but going back in UGH! grrrrr so frustrating!

[Heatheranne]

Sounds like your vet does his/her research. Good to hear.

How'd he make out trying to pass the poo?

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Sounds like your vet does his/her research. Good to hear.

How'd he make out trying to pass the poo?

no poop =( It went back in weirdly enough. I was like awww!!!

we just got done with his 12-24 hr bath..and he is very weak =( he held onto the side of the tank and tried climbing up and out a lot. he actually did pull himself up! we made sure at least his back end was in the water at all times though. Is it okay to do a pedialyte soak right away now? I just want to perk him up a little. He looks so drained.

After this soak..he looks thinner..so we will see if this stops the bloating.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

tried to put the crickets in with him..He isnt interested =(. For some reason it looks like the long soak really drained him. Not too sure why. I was hoping since the metro was supposed to be an appetite stimulant that he would eat for me tonight..but its not looking like it. If this keeps up I am going to have to force feed or use the reptaboost. He doesnt look good =(

[flybyferns]

Hi Lisa,
You might consider this -liquid- product. It's very easy to use.
I purchased the -glass- 30 ml dropper bottle at a heath food store (aroma therapy section)



Amazon.com: Exo Terra Electolyte and Vitamin D3, 3.3 ounces: Pet Supplies

When he poops - remove it immediately - wear gloves !

Lynn

[xXxHeavenxXx]

hmm perhaps use that instead of the pedialyte? I'd like that since it helps give him some of the vitamins hes missing..have you used it before? and how do you give it to him? drops from the dropper bottle? Does it tell me how much to give my little guy? or maybe you know..=)

I definitely have to do something tonight. If you guys see this before its too late..I'd like to know what you would recommend since he hasnt ate anything in about a week now(not to mention I dont know how much he got from the crickets he ate since hes been throwing up). Should I use reptiboost or a dusted cricket to feed him? He's super weak. Id hate to lose him now to hunger after I have him completely medicated and to be honest it really looks like the bloating is gone! I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the end of it..and if I can just get him stronger..hes going to be alright. He's still clicking..but like we said we dont know if thats just him being stressed or part of the problem.

I am going to do a pedialyte dip first and put him in with crickets to see if he attempts to eat. If not I will do either reptiboost or crickets..whichever you guys think or whichever I can get down..one or the other!

[Heatheranne]

I would pedi soak him and then see if he'll eat. If not, I think I'd do the reptaboost.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Hi Heather I hope your still on I need your help!

I had a question that I hope you will see before the end of tonight..Do you know how to mix this reptaboost? I am looking at the instructions and I am not understanding..I have a 5g frog..so I look at that and I'm looking at severe malnutrition..it says 1 spoonful what does that mean? a teaspoon? tablespoon? doesnt matter? per 1 cc of water..what is a cc in liquid form? mL? Then it says he is to eat .2 cc's how do I measure that? lol I feel stupid =P

[xXxHeavenxXx]

also..any special instructions? it says to be careful to not get it down into his lungs..like I could tell where this stuff goes when i push it in his mouth... -_-

I'm nervous lol so any tips are great!

[Heatheranne]

Hi Heather I hope your still on I need your help!

I had a question that I hope you will see before the end of tonight..Do you know how to mix this reptaboost? I am looking at the instructions and I am not understanding..I have a 5g frog..so I look at that and I'm looking at severe malnutrition..it says 1 spoonful what does that mean? a teaspoon? tablespoon? doesnt matter? per 1 cc of water..what is a cc in liquid form? mL? Then it says he is to eat .2 cc's how do I measure that? lol I feel stupid =P

There is a very small little scooper spoon in the box. That is the "spoonful". There should be a weight chart in the box for dosing. 1cc is equal to 1ml. Use about 1/5th of the bitty scooper of powder and mix it with about 2 drops of dechlorinated water or spring water. Mix it up and pull it up into the small syringe provided. Very carefully put the syringe into the side of his mouth. It is easiest to hold the frog if he's in a moist paper towel wrapped around him like a swaddle.

I'll PM you.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Well..for the most part I think that was a success! We got it in his mouth and down his throat! I know we are supposed to give it to him slowly..there were a couple times we accidentally flooded his mouth =(. He did a couple good swallows though for us. It seemed like it really tired and stressed him out but while I was giving it to him it was like he knew..he perked up a bunch for us. Unfortunately now he seems extremely tired and wont move very much at all even if I touch him. I just put him in a comfortable spot and position at the bottom of his tank and hopefully he will rest up for us! I am hoping to see a new and improved frog tomorrow! =)