Whites Tree Frog in trouble..Please help!

[Heatheranne]

Metro is a good medication. I have used it for most of my rescues. My vet always had me give it via topical drops also.

At this point you can just wipe the hospital tank down with hot dechlorinated water. Of course, be careful not to burn your little fella. I would soak Twiggy in his pedialyte dilution soak (in a mini critter keeper with a air-vented lid) while I cleaned out his cage. I had pre-made boiled dechlorinated water and put it into an empty spring water jug and allowed it to cool a bit. I'd use it to wipe out the enclosure daily with paper towels. I used the same pre-made water from the jug to mist his tank and new paper towels, and to fill his water bowl with (also changed daily). I used the water to moisten his paper towel for picking him up to feed him too. The goal was to minimize bringing in any new bacteria into his hospital tank. I would put Twigs back in when the tank was cool. I'd also wash my hands and put on powder-free gloves before doing any tank care, and again wash them when done. Diluted 10% bleach is fine to use, but you have to rinse very thoroughly and then rinse again with dechlorinated water.

Tree frogs change color. Spots and/pr patchy discolorations are generally an infection of some type. They will persist and likely worsen until properly treated.

The normal changing of colors can briefly make them look mottled or patchy, which could look like infection. How you will know, is the color change will finish making them look "normal" again, along with proper eating, pooping, soaking and they will have normal activity levels, energy, mobility, sleep/wake cycles and no further skin discolorations or lesions. Essentially they will look and act normal after the skin color change.

Even the way the light reflects on them or areas of shading from light can alter their colors. They will always return to a overall same shade of green when the lighting or darkness is even against them.

Here are some examples of the ways the light hits them differently and the way they can alter their skin as camouflage. It's quite amazing really.

Is this photo you can see Serena's solid green hue (minus her "freckles" )...


In this photo you can see the bluish color where the lighting is brightest from that side of the tank...


Here you can see he has 3 different shades of green...


This photo is a good example of a color change in progress, incomplete. Here it looks as of he has an infection, though he does not and he finished the color change within a few minutes.


We have to monitor our frogs behavior and eating/defecating habits along with assessing their skin to determine when something is wrong. Skin alterations that persist throughout the day are cause for immediate alarm and need to be treated quickly. A good time to observe their skin is when they're asleep and late at night when they are hunting. It gives you 2 color variations to compare. Now, keep in mind I have a retf. Most tree frogs can exhibit the same color changing responses. Skin alterations tend to show up most when the frog is dark. Another thing to be aware of is when green frogs tend to linger in a dark brown discoloration when they are not against a brown background, it could be a sign that they are stressed and/or sick. Still though, behaviors will help to determine such.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Hi all! No Dr. Frye is not treating my frog. I had emailed him in the beginning, but found a local vet who looks at frogs since my situation seemed severe and I didn't think I had time to wait for treatment via mail.

When I had arrived at the vet it he had a change of plans. My vet contacted a Dr. Gentz who is his "go to" guy for reptiles/amphibians and got a second opinion. This is what the two of them came up with for my baby:

He gave us the Metronidazole in a powder form. Instead of giving it to him orally, he wants us to prepare a bath with it and gave us instructions to mix the powder in a liter of water (it says on the paper he gave me that its a 50mg/L bath) and soak him in it for 12-24 hrs. This is what I am supposed to give to him tomorrow.

I was also given Ivermectin which I was instructed to give him today when I got home. I was to give him one drop of this on his back and then get rid of the rest as he only needs one drop (the one time dose of this was 2mg/kg).

It says these doses are from "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" which is available from the VIN bookstore. (This info is from a printout of the email between both my vet and Dr. Gentz..which my vet gave to me when we saw him today)

My vet assured me that this is pretty much an all encompassing parasite treatment. After this..he said I should have one sterile little frog. I hope this does it! Lemme know what you guys think! Ugh I just want him to be better. I've already promised him a huge cage when he turns around for some extra encouragement lol.

[flybyferns]

Hi all! No Dr. Frye is not treating my frog. I had emailed him in the beginning, but found a local vet who looks at frogs since my situation seemed severe and I didn't think I had time to wait for treatment via mail.

When I had arrived at the vet it he had a change of plans. My vet contacted a Dr. Gentz who is his "go to" guy for reptiles/amphibians and got a second opinion. This is what the two of them came up with for my baby:

He gave us the Metronidazole in a powder form. Instead of giving it to him orally, he wants us to prepare a bath with it and gave us instructions to mix the powder in a liter of water (it says on the paper he gave me that its a 50mg/L bath) and soak him in it for 12-24 hrs. This is what I am supposed to give to him tomorrow.

I was also given Ivermectin which I was instructed to give him today when I got home. I was to give him one drop of this on his back and then get rid of the rest as he only needs one drop (the one time dose of this was 2mg/kg).

It says these doses are from "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" which is available from the VIN bookstore. (This info is from a printout of the email between both my vet and Dr. Gentz..which my vet gave to me when we saw him today)

My vet assured me that this is pretty much an all encompassing parasite treatment. After this..he said I should have one sterile little frog. I hope this does it! Lemme know what you guys think! Ugh I just want him to be better. I've already promised him a huge cage when he turns around for some extra encouragement lol.

This is great ! great !
The Ivermectin is perfect.
Please let me know how he is after the Ivermectin treatment!

You have done so much!
You get the Super Frogger awared

[xXxHeavenxXx]

aww thanks!! I don't know what I would do without you guys and your endless support..

BUT HOLY POOP! I just saw him moving around and was curious what he was up to..and HES POOPING!!!! right now!! at least somethings trying to come out..we will see!

[xXxHeavenxXx]

kinda looks like hes having a hard time =/ looks a little watery..and its not coming out..but going back in UGH! grrrrr so frustrating!

[Heatheranne]

Sounds like your vet does his/her research. Good to hear.

How'd he make out trying to pass the poo?

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Sounds like your vet does his/her research. Good to hear.

How'd he make out trying to pass the poo?

no poop =( It went back in weirdly enough. I was like awww!!!

we just got done with his 12-24 hr bath..and he is very weak =( he held onto the side of the tank and tried climbing up and out a lot. he actually did pull himself up! we made sure at least his back end was in the water at all times though. Is it okay to do a pedialyte soak right away now? I just want to perk him up a little. He looks so drained.

After this soak..he looks thinner..so we will see if this stops the bloating.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

tried to put the crickets in with him..He isnt interested =(. For some reason it looks like the long soak really drained him. Not too sure why. I was hoping since the metro was supposed to be an appetite stimulant that he would eat for me tonight..but its not looking like it. If this keeps up I am going to have to force feed or use the reptaboost. He doesnt look good =(

[flybyferns]

Hi Lisa,
You might consider this -liquid- product. It's very easy to use.
I purchased the -glass- 30 ml dropper bottle at a heath food store (aroma therapy section)



Amazon.com: Exo Terra Electolyte and Vitamin D3, 3.3 ounces: Pet Supplies

When he poops - remove it immediately - wear gloves !

Lynn

[xXxHeavenxXx]

hmm perhaps use that instead of the pedialyte? I'd like that since it helps give him some of the vitamins hes missing..have you used it before? and how do you give it to him? drops from the dropper bottle? Does it tell me how much to give my little guy? or maybe you know..=)

I definitely have to do something tonight. If you guys see this before its too late..I'd like to know what you would recommend since he hasnt ate anything in about a week now(not to mention I dont know how much he got from the crickets he ate since hes been throwing up). Should I use reptiboost or a dusted cricket to feed him? He's super weak. Id hate to lose him now to hunger after I have him completely medicated and to be honest it really looks like the bloating is gone! I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the end of it..and if I can just get him stronger..hes going to be alright. He's still clicking..but like we said we dont know if thats just him being stressed or part of the problem.

I am going to do a pedialyte dip first and put him in with crickets to see if he attempts to eat. If not I will do either reptiboost or crickets..whichever you guys think or whichever I can get down..one or the other!

[Heatheranne]

I would pedi soak him and then see if he'll eat. If not, I think I'd do the reptaboost.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Hi Heather I hope your still on I need your help!

I had a question that I hope you will see before the end of tonight..Do you know how to mix this reptaboost? I am looking at the instructions and I am not understanding..I have a 5g frog..so I look at that and I'm looking at severe malnutrition..it says 1 spoonful what does that mean? a teaspoon? tablespoon? doesnt matter? per 1 cc of water..what is a cc in liquid form? mL? Then it says he is to eat .2 cc's how do I measure that? lol I feel stupid =P

[xXxHeavenxXx]

also..any special instructions? it says to be careful to not get it down into his lungs..like I could tell where this stuff goes when i push it in his mouth... -_-

I'm nervous lol so any tips are great!

[Heatheranne]

Hi Heather I hope your still on I need your help!

I had a question that I hope you will see before the end of tonight..Do you know how to mix this reptaboost? I am looking at the instructions and I am not understanding..I have a 5g frog..so I look at that and I'm looking at severe malnutrition..it says 1 spoonful what does that mean? a teaspoon? tablespoon? doesnt matter? per 1 cc of water..what is a cc in liquid form? mL? Then it says he is to eat .2 cc's how do I measure that? lol I feel stupid =P

There is a very small little scooper spoon in the box. That is the "spoonful". There should be a weight chart in the box for dosing. 1cc is equal to 1ml. Use about 1/5th of the bitty scooper of powder and mix it with about 2 drops of dechlorinated water or spring water. Mix it up and pull it up into the small syringe provided. Very carefully put the syringe into the side of his mouth. It is easiest to hold the frog if he's in a moist paper towel wrapped around him like a swaddle.

I'll PM you.

[xXxHeavenxXx]

Well..for the most part I think that was a success! We got it in his mouth and down his throat! I know we are supposed to give it to him slowly..there were a couple times we accidentally flooded his mouth =(. He did a couple good swallows though for us. It seemed like it really tired and stressed him out but while I was giving it to him it was like he knew..he perked up a bunch for us. Unfortunately now he seems extremely tired and wont move very much at all even if I touch him. I just put him in a comfortable spot and position at the bottom of his tank and hopefully he will rest up for us! I am hoping to see a new and improved frog tomorrow! =)

[Striped marsh]

Well..for the most part I think that was a success! We got it in his mouth and down his throat! I know we are supposed to give it to him slowly..there were a couple times we accidentally flooded his mouth =(. He did a couple good swallows though for us. It seemed like it really tired and stressed him out but while I was giving it to him it was like he knew..he perked up a bunch for us. Unfortunately now he seems extremely tired and wont move very much at all even if I touch him. I just put him in a comfortable spot and position at the bottom of his tank and hopefully he will rest up for us! I am hoping to see a new and improved frog tomorrow! =)

That's great, hopefully he is full of energy when he rests up. Good to hear

[Heatheranne]

How's he doing this evening?

[xXxHeavenxXx]

He is looking pretty good. He may have thrown up some of the reptiboost..but I am not 100% sure as I didn't see him do it. I only say it because it seems like there are some orange-y stains on the paper towel where we put him last night to rest. I do not know if that is the stuff off his face or if he vomited. I picked him up to see his energy and he seems better than yesterday. There is something I think is a little off more recently. Ive had/have other whites..and he seems..sticky? I mist him a bunch (along with his soaks) and he dries out pretty fast. I am not just talking about his feet..but his back too. I mean he has in general a very sticky feeling. He even sticks to himself sometimes with his foot caught on his leg or back and its weird. It actually makes him pretty hard to handle..Is that a dehydration issue?

We are going to try to leave the reptiboost a little more like pudding as suggested so its easier for him to take down. I do see some improvement! He's still my little clicker..still has a drooping mouth..The bloating looks down today.He is stronger..and says "Hello to all that are helping and/or watching my progress!"

[flybyferns]

Wow ! Lisa he looks great !
Keep up the good work.
Your little package is in the mail ( mailed yesterday ...mid-day, so it made the 5 pm pick up from here)
I think you should have it Monday?
Lynn

[Heatheranne]

Great job! I am happy to see him holding himself up . He's so cute .

Did you give the reptaboost another try?

Hmmm...I'm not sure why he feels sticky. Misting and soaking should keep him nicely hydrated. They are like little sponges. I would guess it could be any combination of things...medicine, pedialyte residue, reptaboost residue, he may excrete some of the dextrose through his skin (?) - I have tried to research permeability and electrolyte cross-over (osmolarity) prior but I could not find much data. Or even changes from the illness itself...I can only guess. That's interesting though. Something to think about and keep in mind.

Pondering....