B. Dubia for University Ecology Study

[nmrobi]

Hey everyone. I have heard many many people claim that oranges/citrus help B. Dubia to breed. Some even say the difference is very large. Well I plan to prove it. I am designing a study for my University Ecology class project that will test the whether or not oranges make a difference in the breading of B. Dubia. The problem is that in my colony I do not have enough females to supply for the study. I need between 40 and 50 adult females to run this experiment. I have called the local guys (Phoenix) and haven't had any luck yet. Do you guys have any ideas on who could supply me with these? If you have some you wouldn't mind selling PM me. Any help would be appreciated. I will definitely post the results of this study.

P.S. - This is an undergraduate class so the University will not supply the roaches/money to buy the roaches. So I have to fund it myself.

Thanks

[ejh805]

CNS Feeders is selling newly adult females for $1 each right now.
I've bought from them before and they are good.

[JeffreH]

Hey mmrobi - I'm interested in your study. Can you let us know what exactly your intended experimental methods will be? If you can lay down a foundation for us here, I'd love to look more into the specifics personally.

Myself and a couple others in the entomology lab have been considering the possibility of why cockroaches seem to prefer oranges. For one, they are absolutely packed with carotenoids... but they also have a high moisture content (something roaches are very interested in as well). If you're interested in looking into some primary literature for your work - you might consider looking into a recent publication by Jeremy Heath who did his PhD dissertation on the ecological roles of carotenoids on insects (gall-midge Asteromyia carbonifera, specifically). I'm truly suspecting that carotenoids are a possible explanation.

There is a HUGE roach community at roachforum.com . You may consider asking there for assistance as well. I'm sure there are plenty of members on there who may be willing to donate stock to you for the purpose of the study. You also don't have to do B. dubia... this suspicion applies to all cockroaches it seems and actually started with Malagasy hissers (G. portentosa) kept in culture. If B. dubia are too expensive or not readily available for you, you can always look into other species.

[Bruce]

This is a really cool experiment! I would spare you some but I've recently given a few away...

One variable you should watch for though... Be sure the females aren't already pregnant when you receive them. Try to get newly morphed females and go from there, I'm sure your test results will be much more accurate this way!

[nmrobi]

Emily - I checked out CNS Feeders web page and it looks as though they do not have them for sale any more. All I saw was nymphs. But I did send them an e-mail to explain myself and find out if they might be able to sell me some.

Jeff - I will get into some more detail soon. Right now I am supposed to be studying for a cell biology test, Yuck! But I could use some more primary journal resources, specifically on gestation period of B. Dubia and any other details that could help in my experiment and setting it up. Thanks so much for the one already, when I get a free second I will read it.

Bruce - I have thought of this and how it would effect my results. My plan was to buy enough large nymphs and separate them from my main stock as they morphed so that I would have virgin females but I have come to the conclusion that I won't be able to obtain and virgin females so I plan on removing any nymphs that are born within one gestation period (26-30 days) from the introduction of the roaches to the experiment. Let me know what you think

[Bruce]

That's a good idea and it should work. Just don't begin feeding the citrus until after this period. Or you could even do a group eating citrus the whole time and a group after 30 days,

[JeffreH]

Good luck on your cell biology exam - let me know if you have any questions regarding that as well ; )

I'll browse around for some literature for you; not sure if there is anything out there specifically on B. dubia but I might be able to drag out a few relevant papers on cockroaches. There are few insect rearing journal articles I've come across as well that I'll try to drag up... One specifically discussed variable feeding regiments for Tenebrio molitor (mealworms) and the actual concepts/methods may be pertinent to your study.

There are a LOT of factors that can contribute to uncertainty, unfortunately. We probably won't get any 110% positive explanation from a semester-long research operation, but this will be an awesome foundation to draw out additional questions for future research. Regardless, it will be very cool to see if there is a notable difference in fecundity. = )

One other source of error that will be difficult to account for via only purchasing adult females is age classes - I've not actually taken the time to experiment with this, but often fecundity declines with age. For example, a female at 10 months of age will hypothetically produce more offspring in a litter being in her prime than a female who just reached maturity, or one who is near death. This will be thoroughly resolved by your plan to rear large nymphs into adulthood; so I think you've got an excellent idea there!

And naturally, I hope I don't sound like I'm preaching because that is certainly not my intent = ) but you'll want to keep as many variables constant as physically possible. Temperature, humidity, dry food type and precise weight given in an X time frame, precise weight of fruit given in X time frame, etc. Insects are so incredibly prone to environmental stoachastictiy its insane, and even slight deviations can potentially make a difference in growth rate and reproduction in both the short and long-term.

Anywho, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and am looking forward to your experiment. Good luck on that exam!

[JeffreH]

Some relevant literature that may aid in your experimental setup and discussion. I'll keep my eyes peeled, more to come in the future:

Terpenoid influence on Reproduction: [VERY relevant]
Karr, L., Coats, J.R. (1992). Effects of Four Monoterpenoids on Growth and Reproduction of the German Cockroach (Blattodea: Blattellidae). Journal of Economic Entomology; 85(2), 424-429.

Effects of dietary Protein on reproduction:
Hamilton, R., Schal, C. (1988). Effects of Dietary Protein Levels on Reproduction and Food Consumption in the German Cockroach (Dictyoptera: Blattellidae). Annals of the Entomological Society of America; 81(6), 969-976.


Not as relevant, but the following discuss effects of humidity and density dependence on mealworm growth. May be applied to other insects:


Mellanby, K. (1932). The Effects of Atmospheric Humidity on the Metabolism of the Fasting Mealworm (Tenebrio molitor L., Coleoptera). Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, 111(772), 376-390.


Weaver, D., McFarlane, J. (1990). The effect of larval density on growth and development of Tenebrio molitor. Journal of Insect Physiology; 36(7), 531-536.

[yoshimi]

This is so cool! I got my breeders as large nymphs that molted into adulthood in my care and I'm currently waiting for roach babies. And yes, there is an orange in their bin and at least two of my 24 females are definitely preggo (their oothecas were hangin out for all the world to see), and most look chubby. I still have maybe one nymph, but I haven't sexed it. I was all set to send you some after 1st litter, but you said you need virgins. Great idea, because otherwise it's impossible to tell age. I got mine from West Coast Roaches. They're in NC, do their own breeding, no idea why they call themselves "west coast." I actually won my roaches in a Christmas promotion, but their prices aren't too bad. They did go up recently and they primarily do auctions and grabs on Facebook. This is their new storefront: www.westcoastroaches.com - The Leader in Feeders right now all I see is 100 large nymphs for $37. But on facebook they auction off different quantities. They're also super nice people so if you emailed them through any channel they'll respond and most likely help you out. I don't know about a discounted rate or donation, but I'm almost positive they'd sell you what you need. https://www.facebook.com/westcoastroaches?fref=ts <-- that's what used to be the primary auction page, use it if you send a msg through fb, and this: https://www.facebook.com/groups/West...rsandSupplies/ is the new group.

I hope this helps! I am obviously extremely interested in how this turns out.


edit: i misread or don't read all the time, sorry. So you DON'T want nymphs but you want virgin roaches? If you get large nymphs, keep them warm and humid (so important!), they'll be adults in no time. If you buy adults, you really can't tell how old they are or if they're truly pure. A nymph has never been pregnant. Unlike people, they don't mess with that sh*t til they're adults.

[badkelpie]

I've got plenty, I can spare 50. Do you want adults or sub-adults? The sub adults are a molt or 2 away from being adults. I won't charge you for the roaches, but you pay shipping?

PM me.

(P.S. I have lateralis roaches too, I hate them (frogs LOVE them). If anyone wants the lats, same deal, free roaches, you pay shipping!, There's somewhere between 30 and 60? or less, or more, I don't know, they're too fast to count)

[yoshimi]

I've got plenty, I can spare 50. Do you want adults or sub-adults? The sub adults are a molt or 2 away from being adults. I won't charge you for the roaches, but you pay shipping?

Get those sub-adults, nmrobi! It really doesn't take long at all for them to molt if conditions are right, and within a week they're ready to mate and 4-6 weeks after they become pregnant, you'll have babies. It's usually 28 days, but I heard it can take longer for 1st time pregnancies. But it might depend on heat.. I'm about to find out in my own experiment.

badkelpie, are they sexed? (and sub-adults is a much clearer term to use than nymphs. nice.)

[badkelpie]

Yeah, they're sexed. From about a molt or 2 from adulthood, they are sexually dimorphic. I've heard sub-adults before, but don't remember where .

[nmrobi]

Hey everyone,

I have finished my Ecology study on Blaptica Dubia. I know that this is not perfect but it did well enough for an undergrad project. A big thanks to badkelpie for helping out with the supply of adult females, without them I wouldn't have been able to do this. Now when/if you read this please comment and tell me what you think. Also just because I didn't find and big differences doesn't mean that oranges don't help (the discussion covers this).

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[yoshimi]

Pretty cool. A small difference, but I feel it helps to back up the case for oranges rather than no oranges. And you did a good job, in all. Thanks for posting your results!

[demon amphibians]

Very nice study, so in your opinion what do you honestly think the difference would be if you had 1,000 breeding females with the appropriate male ratio. Also what are the temps, humidity and amount of light provided to the roaches in this study? Also do you have any idea of what oranges have that make this difference?

[nmrobi]

Demon Amphibians, I don't have the experience breading B. Dubia to make an honest prediction as to if oranges would affect their reproduction. And since this was a small study and the equipment available was minimal the temperatures and humidity's and light cycle times were not recorded but they were the same for both sets. Jeff, who posted earlier probably has a much better understanding to answer your questions about what it is in the oranges that might made a difference.