Retf prolapse, help!

[tinkgirl77]

This morning I noticed my retf had prolapsed. They've been in quarantine since I've only had them a month. They've both been eating ave pooping well. I did a honey soak fur about 25 minutes and its did not work. The whole city is shut down today due to Mardi Gras. The herp vet here won't be back till next week. I put him back in his enclosure till I get some advice. What to do?

[tinkgirl77]

1-size of enclosure :10 gal aqaurium, vertical, with screen lid with clamps covered in plexi glass with 2 inch vent at top (Quarantine Tank) Viv not complete yet, but putting a rush on it so I can separate them for a while.
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?) 2 RETFs, larger one Eva, 2.5 inches. Smaller, Wall-E, 2 inches (prolapse)
3-humidity 70 -90% ( i know 90 is too high but if i change and decrease moisture than it ends up dropping to 40-50% when I;m at work (Im a nurse and work 12 hours)
4-temperature hygro therm set to 75 night and 80 during day. Never colder than 72 or hotter than 81
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish Distilled for misting, spring water for dishes, dechlorinated water (reptisafe) for rinsing
6-materials used for substrate Wet paper towel (Spring water)
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv One pothos, cleaned initially before putting in enclose
8-main food source Crickets, mostly 1/2 inch but some have been a little bigger.
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) Repashy multi and Reptocal with D3 (mixed together every other night)
10-lighting :Blue Light day lamp, 50 w, no night bulb
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure Have them on Zoomed Hygrotherm, set at 80 during day and 75 at night. UTH on side and Cermaic heat lamp up top. Never goes over 80 and never lower than 72
12-when is the last time he ate Like I said, 2 frogs in enclosure, eating between 4-10 crickets most nights
13-have you found poop lately There are 2 frogs in quarantine together (came together), have seen 2 poops most days, some days 1 poop
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
15- how old is the frog It is a Subadult, unsure of age
16-how long have you owned himAlmost 2 mos
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred Captive bred, from notable breeder
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats: Crickets ( 1/2 ")
19- about how often the frog is handled :Never until today when I put him in the honey soak (washed hands and applied vinyl gloves which were rinsed in dechlorinated water
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area:Low

[flybyferns]

Hi Lisa,
Sorry...I was out ..... just got back. You are doing a great job !!!

I read your PM. I would keep doing the soaks. one part plain( unflavored pedi ) to 10 parts distilled water It's a good sign it went back in a little by itself. I would switch to the pedi soaks though. Luke warm . Leave him in the next soak for an hour . Soak: in a shallow container /covered so his bottom is in the water/ but water not above his chin.

Sometimes they will wiggle their bodies to get it back. After one of the soaks tonight ( after lights out for the frog) hopefully he will get up on the glass. If he is trying to get it back in himself you will see him changing position often and wiggling a little. Hopefully he doesn't try to touch it with his back legs. Fingers crossed.


dechlorinated water (reptisafe) or aquatize---should be used for soaking dishes as well
Wet paper towel (Spring water) should be de-chlorinated ...simply make a bunch of gallon containers ahead of time-easy ( save your spring water bottles)
humidity 70 -90% yes, you're right ..too high

Crickets, mostly 1/2 inch but some have been a little bigger. way to big -- I feed my adult red eyed tree frogs --small only-- ( this is likely the cause for prolapse... sorry ) order some from josh frogs ?

Crickets, Live Crickets, Cricket Care | Josh's Frogs

skip food tonight
pull the back legs off the crickets until you can get the smaller ones( they will be easier to digest)

Parasites and impaction could also be an underlying factor; but since the crickets are large- I think that's the culprit.

Lynn - please let us know how the rest of the afternoon goes !

[tinkgirl77]

Thanks so much, sent you a pm, I'm in it!

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[UncleChester]

Sorry to hear about your frog and your temporarily absent vet

One of my Hyla versicolor had a prolapse over a year ago, I found some great info at Frank Indiviglio's blog: Amphibian and Reptile Emergencies Read the comments as well. There's handy info contained in them, especially about a lengthy fast during the recovery phase which I hope you will get into. Definitely no food for the foreseeable future, even if it decides to go back in on it's own.

I had some luck with the sugar bath approach to dehydrate the exposed tissue, and I was fortunate to be able to gently nudge it back in with a q-tip lubed up with K-Y jelly
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-prolapse.html A vet would be ideal, but if you have no option at the moment this may be an option to consider.

Best of luck.

[tinkgirl77]

Thanks so much for the help guys. The prolapse went back in. The redness around the very looks better and he went to sheep in his normal spot on glass. I will do pedialyte soaks a few times a day, hold food tonight, aged watch and how for normal poop. I will keep y'all posted.

[GrifTheGreat]

Honey baths also work rather than just sugar water. It will reduce swelling similarly to the sugar baths. I'm actually surprised this wasn't suggested, but Brian and Lynn have you covered.

[flybyferns]

Thanks so much for the help guys. The prolapse went back in. The redness around the very looks better and he went to sheep in his normal spot on glass. I will do pedialyte soaks a few times a day, hold food tonight, aged watch and how for normal poop. I will keep y'all posted.

Hi Lisa,
As mentioned in my PM ............you will want to be very careful about feeding him too soon.
If it's difficult to separate them for feeding ( as it sounds ! ) ; then I would hold food for both .
It's better to hold food for both then feed the one that had the prolapse .......too soon .
I don't think it's a good idea to separate them just for a feeding, either---as it's too stressful on your other frog !
Is it possible you could pick up another quarantine tank over the next couple of days- or like you said---hopefully move one into a your "new tank"?

I'm happy to hear things are heading in the right direction.

Lynn

[tinkgirl77]

Thanks so much. I did the honey soak pet Lynn s idea. It did retract.

[tinkgirl77]

How many days should I hold food from them?

[UncleChester]

Great news! Assuming it's otherwise a healthy frog I'd wait at least a week before feeding again, and I'd ease it back into eating with small easy to digest food items such as cut up earthworms. A check up from your vet when they return might still be a good idea.

[flybyferns]

Thanks so much. I did the honey soak pet Lynn s idea. It did retract.

Lisa ,
I'm glad to hear the soak you did ....helped. You did a great job !
If this were my frog I would do pedi soaks tonight.
If you should due a honey soak....be sure to rinse your frog.
As mentioned, food needs to be held from the frog that has had the prolapse until you witness a normal poop w/out any further struggle or protrusion of any intestine tissue.
Lynn

[tinkgirl77]

Update: Well guys, Wall-E is soaking in his Pedialyte Jacuzzi and Eva is eating her dinner (separated). Wall-E seemed himself, redness around vent is more of a pink now as well. He is actually more active than I think I've ever seen him. Im so THANKFUL for everyone on here. Lynn you are a true savior... Brian thanks for the links! The link to your situation made me feel alot less guilty... I've been trying so hard to make sure I didn't do anything to harm or not do anything to harm my lil guys, so realizing it was the cricket size kills me. I really hope he can continue to recover. I will keep everyone posted on his progress. But again, without this forum, without these responses, my poor lil Wall-E may not have had today. Thanks again.

[Bolisnide]

Update: Well guys, Wall-E is soaking in his Pedialyte Jacuzzi and Eva is eating her dinner (separated). Wall-E seemed himself, redness around vent is more of a pink now as well. He is actually more active than I think I've ever seen him. Im so THANKFUL for everyone on here. Lynn you are a true savior... Brian thanks for the links! The link to your situation made me feel alot less guilty... I've been trying so hard to make sure I didn't do anything to harm or not do anything to harm my lil guys, so realizing it was the cricket size kills me. I really hope he can continue to recover. I will keep everyone posted on his progress. But again, without this forum, without these responses, my poor lil Wall-E may not have had today. Thanks again.

This makes me so happy
Good job, and yes, you (and lynn, and brian, and griff) saved your little one's life!

[UncleChester]

The link to your situation made me feel alot less guilty... I've been trying so hard to make sure I didn't do anything to harm or not do anything to harm my lil guys, so realizing it was the cricket size kills me.

Glad to help. Try not to be too hard on yourself. We seek out as much info as we can and do the best we can with it, mistakes can and will happen despite our best intentions. Best you can do is learn from it and move on. As mentioned parasites are also a possible cause of a prolapse, as is hypocalcemia, and you might consider a vet check to rule these out.

Hope the recovery goes well.

[tinkgirl77]

Good morning FF, just wanted to give y'all an update. Wall e is doing very well. He pooped thursday and I fed him 2 dusted tiny crickets with no legs, and on friday he pooped normal. He looked great and is so much more outgoing than he ever was! He had also shed too. Without all of you, here in ff, we clothes but have come This far. So thank you guys from the bottom of my heart! I will keep watching him very closely and will keep y'all posted. Thank youth so much again.

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[ndame88]

Glad he is well, I prefer to feed mine 1/2 or smaller for this very reason, though is it still possible to get prolapse feeding small crickets.

[Heatheranne]

I'm so glad to hear he's doing better . You did a great job!

[tinkgirl77]

Update: Wall-e continues to do awesome! He's eating and pooping like his old self again. He looks fatter and happier than ever! He's even starting to catch up in size with hie friend, Eva. Hopefully soon they can move into their new rain forest viv!