Ammonia issues

[snobordnwifey]

I posted a couple months ago after one of our ACF's died. We still have one ACF and I'm having a really tough time controlling the ammonia in the tank. It almost always seems to be in the "dangerous" range. It's only in a semi-dangerous range when I do a full water change/mostly full water change. Even then, it still seems to have issues. I realize that it's not a great idea to do full water changes on a regular basis, though. It takes awhile for the tank to stabilize, right? I was sure he would die a few months ago after our other one died, but he's hung in there and seems to be quite active and happy now.

What can I do to help this water issue? I have taken out the rocks, thinking that the food was falling down into them and rotting (even though I had cleared out a spot so that the food would fall onto the bare tank floor). We now have sand as a substrate. Frog seems to be eating the food up when we feed it. We have a side filter (not sure what it's called). What else can I do to control the ammonia in this tank? It is a 10 gallon tank, but we only have one frog. I didn't realize we needed a bigger tank when we had the two frogs. I never realized that these little grow-a-frogs would grow to require so much more than the company we got them from told us. Nevertheless, I certainly want to take care of the little guy the way he deserves to be taken care of. So, can anyone help me here?

Froggy grandma to Freddy, formerly known as Summer

[mpmistr]

I posted a couple months ago after one of our ACF's died. We still have one ACF and I'm having a really tough time controlling the ammonia in the tank. It almost always seems to be in the "dangerous" range.

Danger range is any amount of ammonia over zero.

It's only in a semi-dangerous range when I do a full water change/mostly full water change. Even then, it still seems to have issues. I realize that it's not a great idea to do full water changes on a regular basis, though. It takes awhile for the tank to stabilize, right? I was sure he would die a few months ago after our other one died, but he's hung in there and seems to be quite active and happy now.

There is no semi-dangerous range. Any ammonia or nitrite present in a tank is toxic to a frog. Doing 100% water changes may be disrupting the cycling of your tank, also are you treating your water with a dechlorinator? I would recommend SeaChem's Prime because it is not only a dechlorinator and neutralizes heavy metals it ALSO bonds to ammonia transforms it into a much less lethal compound, ammonium.

What can I do to help this water issue? I have taken out the rocks, thinking that the food was falling down into them and rotting (even though I had cleared out a spot so that the food would fall onto the bare tank floor). We now have sand as a substrate. Frog seems to be eating the food up when we feed it. We have a side filter (not sure what it's called). What else can I do to control the ammonia in this tank? It is a 10 gallon tank, but we only have one frog. I didn't realize we needed a bigger tank when we had the two frogs. I never realized that these little grow-a-frogs would grow to require so much more than the company we got them from told us. Nevertheless, I certainly want to take care of the little guy the way he deserves to be taken care of. So, can anyone help me here?

Froggy grandma to Freddy, formerly known as Summer

Sounds like this tank needs to cycle. Having a bare or sand bottom will help with keeping the tank clean but still, you need to cycle this tank. The reason you have ammonia is because the nitrification process has not kicked in that breaks NH3 (Ammonia) down into NO2 (Nitrite) which is then broken down into NO3 (Nitrate) which can be controlled via partial water changes.

I found myself in the same boat you did, I got into frogs and I didn't cycle my tank and I had ammonia present. Luckily I didn't lose any frogs but the tank was a single froglet ACF in 20 gallons and I did a lot of partial water changes. What I would do (and what may have saved my frogs) was I found a friend who had some -used- filter media from a cycle tank and put it in my filter and let it run for a week. Transferring over some beneficial bacteria from another tank jump started my tank and got it fully cycled fast.

I use this method to jump start new tanks, I keep 3 HOB filters on my 20G (I've since moved my frogs to a 40 gallon breeder) running all the time to keep the BB in case I want to start a new tank or lend some BB out to help a friend starting a tank.

Hope this helps.

[snobordnwifey]

So you are saying find someone who has an aquarium and will allow me to use some their filtering materials? What exactly does it mean to "cycle" a tank? Obviously I'm new to all this. Thank you for your help, btw. I really appreciate it. I feel terrible that I have no idea what I'm doing. I certainly don't want our frog to suffer because of my lack of experience.

[snobordnwifey]

And yes, we are using a dechlorinator. I believe we are using something called Start Right. I think I also have some enzyme type stuff that I have put in in the past, but haven't recently. Would that help? I think it may be stresszyme or something like that.

[mpmistr]

What cycling a tank means is that your aquarium has developed enough 'beneficial bacteria' (which I will refer to as "BB") to break down the waste your frog creates making it a safe environment for him to inhabit. When your frog poops it creates Ammonia (as do fish), the Ammonia is toxic but when BB is present it will break this toxic substance down into Nitrite, however Nitrite is even more deadlier than Ammonia and it is even further broken down into Nitrates. Nitrates are toxic but to a MUCH lesser degree and can be kept low (under 20ppm is optimal) by weekly water changes.

African Clawed Frogs are sensitive to water quality, perhaps not as much as some fish but it's still deadly to them and can kill them (or weaken their immune systems to allow opportunistic bacterial infections set in, such as red leg).

The best place for this bacteria to develop is in the media of your filter (never clean a filter media in tap water, the chlorine will kill the bacteria).

Long story short, it takes time to cycle an aquarium. Since your frog is already present I feel your best bet is to jump-start it with used filter media, that is filter media from a healthy well established tank and has been kept moist and the BB has not died out. I would avoid 'magical potions' sold by fish stores as these do more harm than good, you just need a dechlorinator to remove the chlorine and heavy metals from your tap, period.

This article may help: Establishing Biological Cycling in Freshwater Systems

Have you considered moving your frog into a larger tank? The solution to pollution is dilution, after all. The more water your frog has to frolic in the less toxic the water will be. 10 gallons really is the bare minimum for these frogs, they are much happier and healthier in larger aquariums. A 20 gallon long aquarium would be pretty ideal for a single frog.

I know PetCo runs really sweet deals on 40 gallon breeders and lower, $1 per gallon. Just a thought.

[snobordnwifey]

Thanks Michael. That was very helpful. I have put out a call for help on FB and if I don't get any responses, I will go to the aquarium store to see if they can help me. I'm a little hesitant on that one because who knows what kind of stuff they've got going on in their tanks, though.

[mpmistr]

Yeah I would only use the jump start method from a friend who has a healthy well established tank. Mine came from a friend with a 75 gallon tank with a full grown Oscar and a very large Pleco and I knew both were healthy. The only draw back to getting used media from a LFS is that they usually used a shared system so if one fish has something, it effects a lot of other tanks. In return I was able to jump start my 40 gallon breeder with the media from my 20 gallon by placing the media bags into my canister filter. It is a great method, especially if you decide to get an additional tank down the road.

Don't let me dissuade you from using used media though, there's really not a lot of *fish* diseases that affect ACF (someone please correct me if I am wrong here..). I know I once kept my my first frog with a few zebra danio which developed Ich and my frog was never effected.

The sooner you can cycle your tank the better off your frog will be. These frogs are pretty much long lived and bullet proof hardy animals so long as you meet their basic needs.

[snobordnwifey]

We are still having issues. I can't figure it out. Our frog is acting sick again, floating at the top. Typically, he just floats with his legs hanging down, but now it seems like he's having a hard time keeping his legs from floating up to the surface, so I'm very concerned about him. He's pretty lethargic, too. He shed a lot of skin yesterday and was very frantic about trying to get it off. His coloring seems to have gotten darker as well.

I have left the tank alone for about a month now. Just 25% changes every week or so. Ammonia is still crazy high. Yesterday, for fear of my frogs health, I did a 75% water change and after the change, the ammonia was still at a 4! No nitrites, but high nitrates as well. How do I control this? Using an established tanks sand doesn't seem to have worked. Is my frog just a major ammonia producer? I've been trying not to feed him much, but I also don't want him to starve. He was moving around yesterday trying to eat the pellets I fed him.

What would cause high ammonia and high nitrate, but no nitrite?

[snobordnwifey]

Looks like froggie isn't going to make it. She is hardly moving, just a rare movement of her arms. I put her in fresh, ammonia free water with conditioner in it, in a small tupperware, floating in her tank, so she can get to the air.

[mpmistr]

We are still having issues. I can't figure it out. Our frog is acting sick again, floating at the top. Typically, he just floats with his legs hanging down, but now it seems like he's having a hard time keeping his legs from floating up to the surface, so I'm very concerned about him. He's pretty lethargic, too. He shed a lot of skin yesterday and was very frantic about trying to get it off. His coloring seems to have gotten darker as well.

I have left the tank alone for about a month now. Just 25% changes every week or so. Ammonia is still crazy high. Yesterday, for fear of my frogs health, I did a 75% water change and after the change, the ammonia was still at a 4! No nitrites, but high nitrates as well. How do I control this? Using an established tanks sand doesn't seem to have worked. Is my frog just a major ammonia producer? I've been trying not to feed him much, but I also don't want him to starve. He was moving around yesterday trying to eat the pellets I fed him.

What would cause high ammonia and high nitrate, but no nitrite?

An uncycled tank can cause ammonia and nitrate.. it is a sign that the biological filtration cannot keep up. How large is this aquarium? Your frog needs 10 gallons of water -minimum- otherwise it's going to be a constant battle with ammonia and nitrite. If you are still using the 10 gallon maybe it's time to move to a 20 gallon, a larger tank is always easier to maintain.

Are you sure the ammonia is reading 4ppm? That is huge, like really really huge. Anything over 0 is toxic, even 0.25ppm is toxic, 4ppm is just insane. Are you using test strips? They are not accurate, get a liquid test kit instead.

Beneficial bacteria won't be found in sand, it would be found in filter media, get used filter media (the blue foamy stuff).

I am curious, does your tap water have ammonia? What are you using to condition your water? I would suggest getting Prime as it will neutralize ammonia and convert it into ammonium.

[Heatheranne]

Check to see what type of filter you have. I would recommend a good bio filter. Biofilters with have an extra pad in them for good bacteria to grow on. This will help. Beneficial bacteria will also grow amongst any gravel within the tank, but a bio filter is best.

When starting up a brand new tank, I like to let it cycle for a good 6 weeks. I start it with a fish or two (nothing expensive because they sometimes do not make it through) to start the nitrogen process. Works well. In general, this is just a waiting time. Weekly partial water changes keep the levels down slightly, but you actually want the cycle to take place. Once the cycling has taken place the nitrogenous wastes can be broken down by the good bacteria, and your tank can handle more guests. Partial water changes will still be needed, but the good bacteria have multiplied and are ready to do their job .

I would keep your frog in fresh dechlorinated water, changed daily until your tank cycles. He is likely toxic. How is he today?

[deranged chipmunk]

I have left the tank alone for about a month now.

a month is not long enough to properly cycle a tank. a minimum of 6 weeks should do it. it realistically takes a full 6 months for a tank to fully mature.

No nitrites, but high nitrates as well. Using an established tanks sand doesn't seem to have worked.
What would cause high ammonia and high nitrate, but no nitrite?

define high nitrates. and define sand. normally, the only way to use sand to seed a tank is to put it in your filter. problem is that the sand can cause your filter to clog up and become inoperable. substrates like gravel are much gooder, if you are using substrate to seed. actual bio material from the filter itself is better. be it ceramic material, lava rock or just a plain old, used filter cartridge. your ammonia is high from your frog, most likely .if nitrites are 0,then your tank is almost finished cycling. you just need to be patient and keep doing water changes.

i agree with Heather, though. i would keep the frog in a tank that gets a daily de-chlor water change until the main tank has finished cycling.

do yourself a huge favor and read up on the nitrification cycle of fish tanks. i can link you to a few decent articles if you can't find anything.

[snobordnwifey]

Sadly, Summer the frog died today. I knew it was going to happen by the way he was acting this morning. We have a 10 gallon tank. I think I may have explained at the beginning of the thread that we got this frog as a grow-a-frog and I had no idea that it needed a bigger living environment. Once I read that, I got it into the aquarium without knowing very much about cycling the aquarium.

I have a liquid test kit that I bought yesterday so I could test the water better. Before, I did use the test strips, but I got a 4 with the liquid test kit. I feel so terrible knowing that I pretty much poisoned my frog. The pH was also at a 6.0 when I tested it. Is that too low? I don't remember what the nitrate level was. I remember being surprised that it was so high after getting a 0 reading for nitrites. I have read about tank cycling, but I must have read some bad articles. I've just heard so many different things from different sources.

My daughter is in her room crying for her frog. Who knew I could care so much about a science experiment. We will definitely be letting the tank cycle before we think about getting another ACF. I feel so bad for our poor frog.

[mpmistr]

Sadly, Summer the frog died today. I knew it was going to happen by the way he was acting this morning. We have a 10 gallon tank. I think I may have explained at the beginning of the thread that we got this frog as a grow-a-frog and I had no idea that it needed a bigger living environment. Once I read that, I got it into the aquarium without knowing very much about cycling the aquarium.

Sadly these "grow a frog" kits are often expensive gimmicks purchased by unsuspecting individuals and are completely inadequate. I would not feel bad about this I am sure this happens to many people.

I have a liquid test kit that I bought yesterday so I could test the water better. Before, I did use the test strips, but I got a 4 with the liquid test kit. I feel so terrible knowing that I pretty much poisoned my frog.

Test strips are very inaccurate, liquid test kids are better.. 4ppm Ammonia is incredibly toxic. I am not sure if I believe the actual NH3 was truly that high but I do believe the water did become toxic unfortunately.

The pH was also at a 6.0 when I tested it. Is that too low? I don't remember what the nitrate level was. I remember being surprised that it was so high after getting a 0 reading for nitrites. I have read about tank cycling, but I must have read some bad articles. I've just heard so many different things from different sources.

ACF can survive in pH 6, it's wild swings in pH that prove deadly. Though ACF prefer hard, basic water I don't believe the pH is what caused his death.

My daughter is in her room crying for her frog. Who knew I could care so much about a science experiment. We will definitely be letting the tank cycle before we think about getting another ACF. I feel so bad for our poor frog.

I'm sorry for your loss. I think it may be best to acquire a larger tank if you want to keep ACF, they just need larger tanks than 10 gallons. Believe it or not but for a novice keeping and maintaining larger thanks is actually easier than keeping smaller ones, there is just more room for error when you have a more voluminousness amount of water. A small tip I could give you about cycling is that using used filter media can 'jump start' a new tank and quickly cycle it, some times a local fish store (that you trust) can aid you in this, or a friends established cycled aquarium filter media can be of great use.

Good luck, don't be too discouraged. We've all made mistakes, best thing to do is educate and learn from it. I hope you do decide to keep ACF in the future, they are enjoyable pets.