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Thread: Sick whites frog please help :(

  1. #1
    Willow333
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    Default Sick whites frog please help :(

    I am new to owning frogs but for Christmas my boyfriend bought me two whites frogs. After a while one of them started to become clumsy and could not climb anything, he just kept falling and getting dirty. I also noticed he would not sleep up high, only on the floor and a low leaf. He just got worse and worse and ended up rolling a lot before eventually dying

    because of this we bought the lonely frog a new companion of roughly the same size. Unfortunately it is happening all over again, although I am unsure if it is the new or old frog with the symptoms. I will inspect closer tomorrow.

    i dust the crickets before feeding my frogs and mist them every day. I did however notice today that the humidity is too high, is this the cause behind the problem?

    I would appreciate any help and I really hope it is not too late as I'd hate for it to happen again

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  3. #2
    100+ Post Member Sarosaurus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    If you post a picture of your setup, it could help in identifying the problem. Also giving us the tank parameters (humidity, temperature, tank size, etc.) are very helpful!

  4. #3
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow333 View Post
    I am new to owning frogs but for Christmas my boyfriend bought me two whites frogs. After a while one of them started to become clumsy and could not climb anything, he just kept falling and getting dirty. I also noticed he would not sleep up high, only on the floor and a low leaf. He just got worse and worse and ended up rolling a lot before eventually dying

    because of this we bought the lonely frog a new companion of roughly the same size. Unfortunately it is happening all over again, although I am unsure if it is the new or old frog with the symptoms. I will inspect closer tomorrow.

    i dust the crickets before feeding my frogs and mist them every day. I did however notice today that the humidity is too high, is this the cause behind the problem?

    I would appreciate any help and I really hope it is not too late as I'd hate for it to happen again

    Hi Willow,
    sorry your frog is ill.

    Was the the new frog quarantined? I would recommend removing the sick frog into a hospital tank; continuing to meet all the proper temp and humidity needs. There it can be monitored more closely,can be treated easy, and helps to reduce the possibility of the other becoming ill? This especially important so it can find its feeders easily! A FF search will provide you with several threads regarding a simple hospital tanks ( ie 10 gallons)

    Willow, If you don't want this to happen again.... you need a herp vet. asap. Sorry ...They will both need to be treated since they were kept together.

    Answering the questions below may help (moving forward) to reveal what may have led to his illness.
    A photo of both frogs will help !
    1-size of enclosure
    2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
    3-humidity
    4-temp
    5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
    6-materials used for substrate
    7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
    8-main food source
    9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often )
    10-lighting
    11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    12-when is the last time he ate
    13-have you found poop lately
    14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
    15- how old is the frog
    16-how long have you owned him
    17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
    19- about how often the frog is handled
    20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area
    21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)

    Hope all goes well, please keep us posted.
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  5. #4
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Name:  image.jpg
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Size:  67.9 KB Sorry this is upside down! But this is my setup, I have two small heat mats but have turned one off, the humidity is still at just under 100! The temperature has been at about 70 however it has dropped to 60. I use the plantation soil from exo terra and they have a uv light, as well as dusting their crickets with calcium d. They had two lots of meal worms but i have not given the new frog any, there hasnt been any for a while. they were fed crickets two days ago and I will do it again tonight. I use bottled water for both the water bowl and misting which is cleaned most days, and both frogs are roughly the same size, about 2 inches. I have not handled the frogs barley, just a soft touch when moving the plants around which are artificial.

  6. #5
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Hi Willow,
    Open the doors and fan off the humidity!
    What size enclosure are they in?
    See how things go now that you have turned off the heat mats? They cannot be in a tank with the humidity that high.
    When water collects on the glass like that -- the humidity is too high.

    "I use bottled water for both the water bowl and misting" .....what do you mean by bottled water?
    Water for soaking dishes should be de-chlorinated.
    Move the hygrometer to a different location? If it is an open type-- probe or coil ----blow on it before you re-position it ( to get any collected moister out of it ) . The best hygrometer to use is a closed probe type.

    I think you should still secure a visit with a herp vet.
    Please let us know how things are going.
    Lynn
    Last edited by flybyferns; February 4th, 2013 at 06:28 PM.
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  7. #6
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    I bought a new hygrometer today it is a probe one and says the humidity is about 65 so the old must have been broken. The enclosure is 45x45x60 although I'm not sure how many gallons that is. The bottled water is distilled however it does not say if it is chlorinated or not. I have quarantined the frog today and since then have use water conditioner in the bottled water before use. Unfortunatly I cannot take him to a vet as ours do not specialise in them

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member Bolisnide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow333 View Post
    I bought a new hygrometer today it is a probe one and says the humidity is about 65 so the old must have been broken. The enclosure is 45x45x60 although I'm not sure how many gallons that is. The bottled water is distilled however it does not say if it is chlorinated or not. I have quarantined the frog today and since then have use water conditioner in the bottled water before use. Unfortunatly I cannot take him to a vet as ours do not specialise in them
    Hi Willow, that's a good size enclosure for 2 white's, and is roughly about 30 gallons. 65 is a good humidity for white's...some hygrometer's are off, and the probe ones are much more accurate.
    Stop the distilled water right away! Distilled can leach essential minerals from your frog, thus causing the problem you're describing.
    Please see this thread:
    http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...hing-else.html
    1.1.0 White's Treefrog
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog

  9. #8
    Willow333
    Guest

    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Thankyou! I have just this past hour been researching the water, although I am un certain I do think it is distilled. So as with my fish I will treat all water with the water conditioner. Fingers crossed this will solve it!

  10. #9
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow333 View Post
    Thankyou! I have just this past hour been researching the water, although I am un certain I do think it is distilled. So as with my fish I will treat all water with the water conditioner. Fingers crossed this will solve it!
    I've just searched further and think it was filtered water, is this just as bad?

  11. #10
    100+ Post Member Bolisnide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow333 View Post
    Thankyou! I have just this past hour been researching the water, although I am un certain I do think it is distilled. So as with my fish I will treat all water with the water conditioner. Fingers crossed this will solve it!
    Treating distilled water, is not the solution, unless you are adding in minerals, but regular de-chlorinators do not have minerals, only rid the chlorine, and neutralize heavy metals. You need to have water with minerals in it, like tap water treated with a de-chlorinator, or 100% spring water. You really should discontinue the distilled, except for misting. Use regular water treated with a de-chlorinator for the water dish.
    1.1.0 White's Treefrog
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog

  12. #11
    100+ Post Member Bolisnide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow333 View Post
    I've just searched further and think it was filtered water, is this just as bad?
    No, that's better actually. At least there should be minerals in it, just add the water conditioner in case there is any chlorine.
    1.1.0 White's Treefrog
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog

  13. #12
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Thank you from now on I will use the filtered water with water conditioner!

  14. #13
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow333 View Post
    I bought a new hygrometer today it is a probe one and says the humidity is about 65 so the old must have been broken. The enclosure is 45x45x60 although I'm not sure how many gallons that is. The bottled water is distilled however it does not say if it is chlorinated or not. I have quarantined the frog today and since then have use water conditioner in the bottled water before use. Unfortunatly I cannot take him to a vet as ours do not specialise in them

    Hi Willow,
    I'm happy to read that you got a new hygrometer and have straighten out the water issue!
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  15. #14
    Lixra
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    We use the bottled mineral water (100% Pure Cumbrian! ... but not that it matters) with all our frogs, geckos and snakes. Now that you've gotten a handle on monitoring your humidity levels accurately, just keep an eye on them to make sure everything's okay.

    As far as the vet, our vet is not technically an "exotic specialist" so to speak, but knows far more than than the average vet on reptile/amphibian care. If he doesn't know something he makes a call to the nearest specialist to us, and gets us the information we need. Your vet may be able to let you know of a specialist close by however, so it doesn't hurt to ask.

    Good luck

  16. #15
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    There's still no luck, the vet was no help either so I'm on my own. I just looked at him, he's bloated again. He keeps 'deflating' the bloating. It also had what to me was a frog fit! He was lying there tensing everything I have never seen it before but a fit or seizure is the best way to explain it I'm afraid. Also from what it looked like he was squirting when he did it, to me it looked like he was urinating small sprays as I don't know what else it could be

  17. #16
    100+ Post Member helm96's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Sounds like it may have possibly been shedding. Check out the video linked below and see if thats what your frog was/is doing.
    Whites tree frog (shedding skin) - YouTube

  18. #17
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Unfortunately he didn't look like that I wish it was that. He went really stiff and flat, although bloated. He kind of convulsed into in inverted ball, so his legs were above his back. It's so hard to explain but I really don't know what's wrong

  19. #18
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    Could it be red leg? Although I have not noticed a change in colour since I bought them, there is a redsh tinge I assumed it was just his colours?

  20. #19
    100+ Post Member helm96's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    when you say that you are dusting your crickets are you dusting them with Calcium or vitamins or both?

  21. #20
    Willow333
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    Default Re: Sick whites frog please help :(

    It's calcium at the minute, I'm waiting for the vitamin to come through

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