Bronze or Brown Mantellas?

[Geo]

This is one of the two Mantella frogs I obtained this week. Tiny little frogs with an absolutely gorgeous golden brown colour and a very cool looking pattern on their back. It is about 1 inch in size, fast moving and shy. One of them seems to have the tendency to burrow into the loose moss at the back of the small terrarium that I presently have them in.

I was wondering if someone can clarify if they are either brown or bronze mantellas. I have read that there is no obvious difference between the two species outside of which region they happen to be found in and of course dna (which isn't commonly available). The pet store in which I bought these cuties listed them as bronze mantellas and from the lengthy chat I had a couple of days after the purchase that I got the impression initially that they may have been wild caught although their general policy for the reptile / amphibian section is that they get stock from captive breeders. I am also alittle confused as to the type of habitat I should set up. Some say a habitat very similar to dart frogs, or with a small swim area, others say dry but a minimum rain system, others say misting with small water dish, etc, etc. I am planning on buying this week and medium size Exo Terra and a cannister based rain system, live plants and a small shallow swim area. Will this suffice? I have also fed them very small meal worms from the colony I use to feed my fire bellies.

[tgampper]

The pictures do not show very much detail, so identification is a bit difficult. Here is my thought: among the genus Mantella, there are five species groups recognized. Of the five, it looks like your frogs are part of the Mantella betsileo group, which includes the species of betsileo, ebenaui, expectata and viridis.

Information on captive care Marc Staniszewski's Mantella FAQ

[deranged chipmunk]

Looks like a Mantella Betsileo. Their care is kind of a cross between a tree frog and a dart frog. The Betsileo have a very broad range in the wild. They range from the arid mountain regions of western/ south western madagascar to the tropical rainforests on the east coast. If they were captive bred, your best bet is to find out what conditions the breeder kept them in.

Otherwise, Marc's page that Terry linked to is indeed the finest care sheet out there.

[Geo]

Thank you both for the suggestions. I have a plan I will be putting into action this week based off the info. Right now the biggest challenge is the feeding as they dont seem to like neither the fruit flies nor the baby meal worms i have offered. I returned to the pet store to attempt to get more info from them regarding origins and previous care methods but that was a failure. I am, at least for the present, left with the notion that these may be wc mantellas.

[deranged chipmunk]

Here is the home for my mantellas. I do not run a heater in my system. I am putting them through natural seasons, so right now they are going through a dry, cold season http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...aludarium.html
As far as feeding, not sure what to tell you. Mine eat fruit flies very freely. What were they eating at the shop you nought them from?

And a majority of mantellas in the pet trade are wc. Very few people breed them.

[Geo]

As irony would have it, it was that very thread that made up my mind what I want to do in regard to habitat setup! Lol. As for what they ate at the pet shop I was told crickets. I asked was it pin head crickets. The young lad said no, just regular size crickets. I said that would be difficult due to the size of the frog. Anyhooooo, I will do the best for them as I have for my other critters. Planning to start the palidarium setup this weekend after the rush of work shifts slows down.

[deranged chipmunk]

Yeah, there's no way these guys are eating anything bigger than a pinhead. You can also try a different species of fruit fly if they are available to you.

I'm glad my tank could be of some inspiration for you. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[Geo]

Thank you for the offered assistance. The Frog Forum is an informative and much needed resource for persons new to amphibian care and husbandry, and experienced persons alike such as yourselves. With the need for conservation and species preservation occurring everywhere across the globe, it well may be in time that people such as ourselves who will be keeping alive certain amphibian species long after their natural habitats have been destroyed due to deforestation, agricultural development and pollution. For some it may be just a hobby while for others it can turn into a noble cause. Hopefully this on-line resource will be around for some time.

[deranged chipmunk]

Very well said!!!!! I couldn't agree more. That's why i hope mine breed. I don't want to make a living breeding frogs, bjt every cb frog that enters the market is one in the wild that has been saved. At least that's how i like to see it. I know it is not reality, but at least i can give it a shot.

[Bdimas]

Beautiful frogs! Have you tried feeding springtails or termites? My frogs love springtails.

[Geo]

Termites I have but they don't seem to care for them. Springtails I don't have access to at the moment due to never having cultivated them (my fire belly toads & newts dont require them). Been checking with some local herp folks to see if anyone has some. The mantellas, to be honest, were initially a pet store rescue (sadly most of my pets are). I was not happy with what I saw and heard and wanted to take them into a situation where the options would be better. Having had success taking care of other amphibians I thought it would be an interesting opportunity to learn something new, and it has. I am also in a hurry to get a decent size habitat started for them but work obligations interfere with that. Blah, blah, blah.

[Bdimas]

Lol! I have a whites tree frog due to a pet store rescue.

Springtails are easy. Keep them in a Tupperware or plastic container with charcoal or orchid bark. You can even do a combination of the two. Feed them a bit of uncooked rice or a bit of fish food every now and then and your good to go. Oh and you will want the substrate you choose to be damp.

[Geo]

Sadly Bill, the whole pet trade is at a point where in some situations it has become or will become an ironic necessary evil. There are species who 30 or 20 years ago were introduced into the pet trade but now exist only in the hobby community. Their natural habitat either no longer exists or has been significantly compromised by human interference. Those who have never cared for animals tend to automatically point to the excessive over harvesting of wild caught creatures and while that may be considered a valid point it sometimes is not an isolated factor. Ie - Deforestation, due to growing agricultural needs, is a major component in the shifting of ecological stability. If someone didn't initially remove a certain species from a region that would be quickly processed for say farming developments, that said species may have simply been wiped off the map and yet another sad entry in the book of extinction. Topics like this sometimes lack a distinct black and white but are a murky gray.

[deranged chipmunk]

and the truly sad thing is that it isn't isolated to frogs. all kinds of species are being wiped out. some to support expanding populations and some for just plain, flat out greed. but luckily for the hobbyist, others have kept species around in the hobby for others to enjoy. if there weren't people like us, our kids and their kids would miss out on some truly spectacular creatures

[deranged chipmunk]

Lol! I have a whites tree frog due to a pet store rescue.

Springtails are easy. Keep them in a Tupperware or plastic container with charcoal or orchid bark. You can even do a combination of the two. Feed them a bit of uncooked rice or a bit of fish food every now and then and your good to go. Oh and you will want the substrate you choose to be damp.

yeah, the old pet store rescue. it's the reason i have 6 white's and not 2...lol

[helm96]

yeah, the old pet store rescue. it's the reason i have 6 white's and not 2...lol

I am there with you, as soon as my quar. tank is free again I will be picking up yet another rescue Whites if some one does not rescue him in the next week.

I hope your mantellas breed, if so I will be interested for sure. I agree with what you said about cb to wc. I have been lucky and 10 of my frogs have been from local breeders and they are all hearty. The rescues are the ones that I cannot say for sure but I will take a wc if its the difference between a long life or a death sentence in the wrong conditions.

I was lucky enough to influence the manager at my local Petco to not carry PDFs. I actually spent 45 minutes going over proper care with her and she flat out said with the policies in place we cannot offer that kind of care. She said that she would not be adding the PDFs to the inventory and that was well over a year ago, so I like to think my concern and objections is the reason they are not selling them.

[Geo]

A better photo of one of my mantellas and their new habitat.

[Heatheranne]

yeah, the old pet store rescue. it's the reason i have 6 white's and not 2...lol

Bill, that too is why I have 7 green retf's rather than the 2 green and 2 albino's I had originally planned for, and why I have 3 pacs rather than one.

[Heatheranne]

My daughter and I did some research on endangered to extinct frogs and toads last year to teach the kids at school. As we read, the problem was surprisingly more widespread and worse than we had thought. There was a said close to estimated 200 species extinct or leaning towards extinct. The golden toad, golden mantellas, and so many more. By the time the save the frogs week came, we had so many posters they covered two long hallways at school, the large magnet board in the library, all of the library tables, and the whole one wall in the classroom that we presented in. And we didn't even begin to cover it all.

Between Chytrid, Ranavirus, habitat destruction (by us humans, unfortunately), the food industry (bullfrogs), and wild caught for hobbyists the numbers have declined dramatically in the last few decades. And of course, there are more causes. That's just a few.

Hobbyists breeding to increase numbers I believe is great, so long as we do a good job in caring for them. And the true scientific rescue and release projects have managed to keep some species from crossing the endangered to extinct line. I would love to be a part of that. The most we have done is toads and turtles that aren't on the endangered list. Though that has to be done with caution too as to heeling them clean or shall I say infectious-free and should only be released if native to that location or area.

I know you already know all of this. As I was reading I felt the desire to join in .

I'd love to see your bronze babies multiply . And I believe giving them to educated, good caretakers or hobbyists is a good thing. (Feel free to send them to this nice adopter ). I think keeping a species healthy and increasing their numbers is great, in that way.

Amphibian Ark has some good reading .

Anyway....back to your thread .

[flybyferns]

It's beautiful , Geo !

Here's are 2 browns: ?
Mantella ebenaui - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brown mantella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dream dream dream !!!
Mantella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lynn