Bronze or Brown Mantellas?

[Geo]

This is one of the two Mantella frogs I obtained this week. Tiny little frogs with an absolutely gorgeous golden brown colour and a very cool looking pattern on their back. It is about 1 inch in size, fast moving and shy. One of them seems to have the tendency to burrow into the loose moss at the back of the small terrarium that I presently have them in.

I was wondering if someone can clarify if they are either brown or bronze mantellas. I have read that there is no obvious difference between the two species outside of which region they happen to be found in and of course dna (which isn't commonly available). The pet store in which I bought these cuties listed them as bronze mantellas and from the lengthy chat I had a couple of days after the purchase that I got the impression initially that they may have been wild caught although their general policy for the reptile / amphibian section is that they get stock from captive breeders. I am also alittle confused as to the type of habitat I should set up. Some say a habitat very similar to dart frogs, or with a small swim area, others say dry but a minimum rain system, others say misting with small water dish, etc, etc. I am planning on buying this week and medium size Exo Terra and a cannister based rain system, live plants and a small shallow swim area. Will this suffice? I have also fed them very small meal worms from the colony I use to feed my fire bellies.

[tgampper]

The pictures do not show very much detail, so identification is a bit difficult. Here is my thought: among the genus Mantella, there are five species groups recognized. Of the five, it looks like your frogs are part of the Mantella betsileo group, which includes the species of betsileo, ebenaui, expectata and viridis.

Information on captive care Marc Staniszewski's Mantella FAQ

[deranged chipmunk]

Looks like a Mantella Betsileo. Their care is kind of a cross between a tree frog and a dart frog. The Betsileo have a very broad range in the wild. They range from the arid mountain regions of western/ south western madagascar to the tropical rainforests on the east coast. If they were captive bred, your best bet is to find out what conditions the breeder kept them in.

Otherwise, Marc's page that Terry linked to is indeed the finest care sheet out there.

[Geo]

Thank you both for the suggestions. I have a plan I will be putting into action this week based off the info. Right now the biggest challenge is the feeding as they dont seem to like neither the fruit flies nor the baby meal worms i have offered. I returned to the pet store to attempt to get more info from them regarding origins and previous care methods but that was a failure. I am, at least for the present, left with the notion that these may be wc mantellas.

[deranged chipmunk]

Here is the home for my mantellas. I do not run a heater in my system. I am putting them through natural seasons, so right now they are going through a dry, cold season http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...aludarium.html
As far as feeding, not sure what to tell you. Mine eat fruit flies very freely. What were they eating at the shop you nought them from?

And a majority of mantellas in the pet trade are wc. Very few people breed them.

[Geo]

As irony would have it, it was that very thread that made up my mind what I want to do in regard to habitat setup! Lol. As for what they ate at the pet shop I was told crickets. I asked was it pin head crickets. The young lad said no, just regular size crickets. I said that would be difficult due to the size of the frog. Anyhooooo, I will do the best for them as I have for my other critters. Planning to start the palidarium setup this weekend after the rush of work shifts slows down.

[Heatheranne]

yeah, the old pet store rescue. it's the reason i have 6 white's and not 2...lol

Bill, that too is why I have 7 green retf's rather than the 2 green and 2 albino's I had originally planned for, and why I have 3 pacs rather than one.

[flybyferns]

It's beautiful , Geo !

Here's are 2 browns: ?
Mantella ebenaui - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Brown mantella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dream dream dream !!!
Mantella - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lynn

[deranged chipmunk]

Very cool set up Geo. Reminiscent of a cliffside valley stream rumning through the east side of madagascar. I think i saw that scene in a documentary rhe other night

[Geo]

Thanks all. I am planning to add mosses on the bottom for greenery and a few areas as leaf litter sections. Using crushed almond leaf that I had around for my bettas. I would like to find something natural to add to the back wall that will grow and spread. Right now I am thinking of adding java moss as I find that to be easy. If anyone has any suggestions please pass them along. This is also my first setup with a false bottom as my pervious setups involved having waterfalls, pools and so on. This time I am trying to go for something different and more relevant to a climber rather then a swimmer species. I was inspired to try this based of some of Bill's stuff. The exo terra is the cubed 18 x 18 x 18. Would, if I have a lot of plants and such, I be able to keep 4 mantellas in this comfortably or is that pushing it? I have two in there at present. Should I cover the top to maintain humidity or partial cover it or leave it open as I am a bit confused if they prefer cool or warm / humid. I am ordering wingless fruit fly culture to provide a food source. I have noticed that they have a preference for the croton plant over the sheffllera and ivy that are presently in there.

[Geo]

It is a sad contradiction of sorts Heather but my take is that at this point those of us who care should do what we can to foster our interest in these things and attempt to participate by caring well for the creatures we have and help others do the same. I don't agree with the whole pet trade wild capture angle but that doesn't prevent me from making the odd purchase to save the animal from the horrible conditions I see at some of the pet shops. Hopefully the hobby, such as ourselves, will someday reach a point where we all act as a sort of breeding conservation community rather then just a pet hobby. I take the welfare of any animal in my care very seriously as it is a responsibility once you choose to bring them into your home. I just hope I can resist buying more terrariums haha. I have 2 so far which is probably nothing in comparison to some of you all but my living room doesn't look like a living room any more lol. Add to that my wife's fish tanks, our three dogs, 4 budgies, geckos, snakes and so on, I think I live in a zoo.

[deranged chipmunk]

Thanks all. I am planning to add mosses on the bottom for greenery and a few areas as leaf litter sections. Using crushed almond leaf that I had around for my bettas. I would like to find something natural to add to the back wall that will grow and spread. Right now I am thinking of adding java moss as I find that to be easy. If anyone has any suggestions please pass them along. This is also my first setup with a false bottom as my pervious setups involved having waterfalls, pools and so on. This time I am trying to go for something different and more relevant to a climber rather then a swimmer species. I was inspired to try this based of some of Bill's stuff. The exo terra is the cubed 18 x 18 x 18. Would, if I have a lot of plants and such, I be able to keep 4 mantellas in this comfortably or is that pushing it? I have two in there at present. Should I cover the top to maintain humidity or partial cover it or leave it open as I am a bit confused if they prefer cool or warm / humid. I am ordering wingless fruit fly culture to provide a food source. I have noticed that they have a preference for the croton plant over the sheffllera and ivy that are presently in there.

i apologize Geo, i meant to respond to this days ago, and got caught up in my own little world. i think putting 4 in that tank would be pushing it, unless (i always have an unless) you have a confirmed 2 males and 2 females. mantellas are weird, females stay on the floor, while the males pick out a territory and climb high to defend it. so you would have 2 occupying the ground and 2 occupying the land. that would most likely work.

humidity, i keep mine in the high 70's. i don't heat my tank, and the tank is in a relatively unheated basement. i have a space heater to keep my part of the man/frog/fish cave at a nice 70. so they get cooler temps at night and warmer temps during the day. not as extreme as what is outside, but more like their natural habitat. and remember, if you plan on breeding them, this would be their cold, dry season (June for them). i have links for the climate of Madagascar if you need them. yeah, i researched thoroughly before i built....LOL

oh, and they are wonderful little interior decorators. one of my males has dug out a spot to hide under my oak leaf fig and the females are constantly rearranging little things on the floor. subtle changes, but i notice them. i need to stop staring at my tanks for so long...lol

btw, i just ordered 8 of those little cuties tonight, i should have them this week

[Heatheranne]

My daughter and I did some research on endangered to extinct frogs and toads last year to teach the kids at school. As we read, the problem was surprisingly more widespread and worse than we had thought. There was a said close to estimated 200 species extinct or leaning towards extinct. The golden toad, golden mantellas, and so many more. By the time the save the frogs week came, we had so many posters they covered two long hallways at school, the large magnet board in the library, all of the library tables, and the whole one wall in the classroom that we presented in. And we didn't even begin to cover it all.

Between Chytrid, Ranavirus, habitat destruction (by us humans, unfortunately), the food industry (bullfrogs), and wild caught for hobbyists the numbers have declined dramatically in the last few decades. And of course, there are more causes. That's just a few.

Hobbyists breeding to increase numbers I believe is great, so long as we do a good job in caring for them. And the true scientific rescue and release projects have managed to keep some species from crossing the endangered to extinct line. I would love to be a part of that. The most we have done is toads and turtles that aren't on the endangered list. Though that has to be done with caution too as to heeling them clean or shall I say infectious-free and should only be released if native to that location or area.

I know you already know all of this. As I was reading I felt the desire to join in .

I'd love to see your bronze babies multiply . And I believe giving them to educated, good caretakers or hobbyists is a good thing. (Feel free to send them to this nice adopter ). I think keeping a species healthy and increasing their numbers is great, in that way.

Amphibian Ark has some good reading .

Anyway....back to your thread .

[Heatheranne]

It is a sad contradiction of sorts Heather but my take is that at this point those of us who care should do what we can to foster our interest in these things and attempt to participate by caring well for the creatures we have and help others do the same. I don't agree with the whole pet trade wild capture angle but that doesn't prevent me from making the odd purchase to save the animal from the horrible conditions I see at some of the pet shops. Hopefully the hobby, such as ourselves, will someday reach a point where we all act as a sort of breeding conservation community rather then just a pet hobby. I take the welfare of any animal in my care very seriously as it is a responsibility once you choose to bring them into your home. I just hope I can resist buying more terrariums haha. I have 2 so far which is probably nothing in comparison to some of you all but my living room doesn't look like a living room any more lol. Add to that my wife's fish tanks, our three dogs, 4 budgies, geckos, snakes and so on, I think I live in a zoo.

We feel the same. I give mine the best care possible. I feel if you can't provide what they need, then you shouldn't have them.

It would be great to assist in a conservation program. I'd love to be a true part of Amphibian Ark or another habitat fostering group. If we can keep species producing in a healthy manner than that in itself is a good thing. The breakdown of the healthy species seems to be at the level of the pet stores. Not all, but mostly within the chain stores that only want to ship them in and push them out without proper care and poor education both of the stores and then providing poor teaching to their customers. It's a shame. If we can break that cycle, then many of the ailments frog hobbyists run into would be less of an issue.

I agree...I only buy captive bred. But, if the opportunity arose for me to purchase a rare exotic breed, would I? I can't say that I wouldn't. But, I would take great care of the frogs and would hopefully encourage breeding.

[Heatheranne]

No worries, lol!!! We live in an organized zoo too .

I still wish I'd hit the lottery to truly have an amphibian/reptile zoo .

[helm96]

Huh I'm not sure what that says about me then, I knew exactly where you were headed with that!

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[deranged chipmunk]

it says you are just as twisted as i am Will......must be in the name....LOL

[helm96]

Touche my friend, touche!

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[Geo]

We northern cousins have no probs with using Canucks (or Canuck-ville). I use it quite often as I see it as an empowering nickname for us Canadians. Quite frankly it is sort of cool sounding.

Fits in with who we are and what we gave you Americans (which you should be eternally grateful for lol) - maple syrup, hockey, butter tarts, toques, Newfoundland dogs, lacrosse (we're sorry for that one), snowmobiles, Superman, walkie talkies, smarties, the lightbulb, basketball (you can keep that one), beavertails (the pastry that is), poutine, Tim Hortons, the Beachcombers, the ability to use Eh and still be cool, two-fours (24 beers), insulin, Montreal smoked meat and bagels, and the finale is DUCT TAPE.

[helm96]

You lost me at Hockey. That is 1 of my other passions besides frogs! Go Maple Leafs!

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