Firebelly questions

[Crystal6]

Hello. I've been thinking about getting a new frog for the 20 gallon aquarium I have. (It is long rather then tall)

I've considered Red Eyed Tree Frogs but I'm starting to think maybe they wouldn't be too happy in a wide aquarium that they can't climb in.

I'm considering Poison Dart frogs but it has come to my attention that maybe they won't be the easier thing to sustain on crickets. (Hunting through my aquariums for small crickets will probably take a long time.) and that they are generally difficult to keep.

So, without totally abandoning any plans, now I investigate the possibility of a Firebelly toad. My current source of information is http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/mypets/firebellies.html but it seems a little inadequate. So, my questions:

1 How many can you keep in a 20 gallon? Do they also prefer a tall aquarium over a long one?

2 What temperature do they need? (I'd rather not have them trying to hibernate like my White's was.)

3 This person says chlorinated water is very dangerous, if I boil it for 12 minutes will it be safe?

4 Are they territorial like poison dart frogs?

5 Is there anything else I should know about them before I consider getting one? I hear they are durable.

[John]

I've considered Red Eyed Tree Frogs but I'm starting to think maybe they wouldn't be too happy in a wide aquarium that they can't climb in.

Well, that size of aquarium is pretty small for adult red eyes.

I'm considering Poison Dart frogs but it has come to my attention that maybe they won't be the easier thing to sustain on crickets. (Hunting through my aquariums for small crickets will probably take a long time.) and that they are generally difficult to keep.

Sustaining Dart Frogs on crickets is a challenge unless you have a dependable supply of very small crickets. The one exception is the Golden Poison Dart Frog, Phyllobates terribilis. They eat very large prey, and adults have been known to swallow adult size crickets (though 1/2" crickets are more suitable for adult Golden PDF).

So, without totally abandoning any plans, now I investigate the possibility of a Firebelly toad. My current source of information is http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/mypets/firebellies.html but it seems a little inadequate.

That's a good choice of frog/toad. We're actually in the latter stages of finishing up a comprehensive Care and Breeding Article for fire-bellied toads here on Frog Forum, but it'll be a couple of weeks I think.

1 How many can you keep in a 20 gallon? Do they also prefer a tall aquarium over a long one?

They don't really climb so horizontal is best for them. If you lay it out right, I would say 4 in a terrarium that size. Others might say more but 4 would be a comfortable size in my opinion.

2 What temperature do they need? (I'd rather not have them trying to hibernate like my White's was.)

They won't hibernate if you keep the temperatures in the early 20s Celsius (70s F), with a permanent water source for them to get in and out of or hang out.

3 This person says chlorinated water is very dangerous, if I boil it for 12 minutes will it be safe?

If you want a permanent, filtered water pool in the terrarium, you can't use straight tap water. Boiling only works for water that has only been treated with chlorine. However in many places the municipalities also add ammonia to the water. This combines with chlorine to form chloramines. These won't boil of as easily as chlorine gas. The easiest approach is to use a dechlorinator product like Tetra Aquasafe or Amquel. They're easy to use and ~instantaneous in effect.

4 Are they territorial like poison dart frogs?

Not in the way you are thinking. They are relatively tolerant of each other. Regarding dart frogs and territoriality, many species of dart are not territorial, or at least they are not hostile to others - it just depends on the species of dart.

5 Is there anything else I should know about them before I consider getting one? I hear they are durable.

They are pretty tough. Provide them with a good terrarium, correct temperature range, and a regular food supply and they will do well for you.

[Kurt]

I would also add that getting them dewormed is a very good idea, as most fire-bellied toads are wild caught. Also, I think you should be able to get about 6 or so in a 20-long comfortably. I keep mine in about an inch or two of water with floating platforms for them to climb out on.

[Kurt]

So, without totally abandoning any plans, now I investigate the possibility of a Firebelly toad. My current source of information is http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/mypets/firebellies.html but it seems a little inadequate.

I kind of zoned out after I read that this person was keeping fire-bellied toads and newts together. I wonder which ones ended up dying first.

Also never use a sponge for your moisture source with crickets. To do so is to make a real disgusting mess.

[Crystal6]

I kind of zoned out after I read that this person was keeping fire-bellied toads and newts together. I wonder which ones ended up dying first.

Also never use a sponge for your moisture source with crickets. To do so is to make a real disgusting mess.

The first thing I think of is cricket **** all over the sponge. I just use orange slices since... they're edible. So they can drink and eat at the same time and I don't have to worry about seeing watery sponge mixed with... yeah. For egg laying I put a whip-cream container that I filled with dirt and spray it once a night.

[Crystal6]

I kind of zoned out after I read that this person was keeping fire-bellied toads and newts together. I wonder which ones ended up dying first.

I suddenly feel inclined to ask. Are fire-bellied toads poisonous to fire-bellied newts? Or do you fear they will attack each other?

[John]

Both are toxic to each other. If you are ever tempted to mix them, read this:

Caudata Culture Articles - Species Mixing Disasters

(Scroll down to the numbered list for fire belly toads + fire belly newts)

[Crystal6]

Both are toxic to each other. If you are ever tempted to mix them, read this:

Caudata Culture Articles - Species Mixing Disasters

(Scroll down to the numbered list for fire belly toads + fire belly newts)

Ah I see. Ty. I just read the new Fire-Bellied Toad care sheet. I am surprised you can keep 4-5 in a ten gallon. I'm used to thinking like I do with White's Tree Frogs where you need a 20 gallon for one. Can they swim? Or should I keep the water shallow? (My current filtering device of choice requires the water level be 10 inches or higher. Which may pose a problem for 2 inch toads.)

[Kurt]

They can swim quite well actually, but deep water may be wasted on them.

[Crystal6]

They can swim quite well actually, but deep water may be wasted on them.

So 10 inch water would not kill them as long as I provide a way for them to get out?

[Kurt]

Probably not.

[chrisbliss]

The care sheet for fire belly toads is up. I just read it and it's full of great info. Sectioning off the tank so it is 1/2 water and 1/2 land is a great way to set up a tank (just fill 1/2 with gravel and silicone in a peice of plexiglass). That's what I've done and my frogs love it (I also have a waterfall but you don't need to get that complicated). One word of advice: fire bellies are excape artists!!! Thay can climb glass no prob and squeeze out of the tiniest holes so make sure you have a good lid. Other than that they are pretty easy to care for. Have fun!

[Tropicok]

I have an oblong, plastic container that fits tightly in the fire-belly frog tank. But, it has sloping sides and the FBs flatten themselves between CLEAR container and glass and think they are hidden. So funny. At times they are very calm and let me feed them and other times I walk into room and they bounce all over the tank in a frenzy.

[Crystal6]

I have an oblong, plastic container that fits tightly in the fire-belly frog tank. But, it has sloping sides and the FBs flatten themselves between CLEAR container and glass and think they are hidden. So funny. At times they are very calm and let me feed them and other times I walk into room and they bounce all over the tank in a frenzy.

Nice. Could I see a picture of your aquarium set up?

[Dwhiteman11]

I have a 20 gallon long aquarium that I set up for 4 firebelly toads. I used plexy glass and made it 60/40 water to land. I bought a rock filter that doubles as a waterfall. I have about 8 inches of water in there with some large rocks that they can climb on. They love the water area and they are really good swimmers. I find at least one of them hiding under the water in between the rocks. I've found that you can use a lot of stuff they make to house turtles with.

[Deku]

To treat anything that has chlorine and chloramine just get a tap water conditioner for aquariums. You can try any. I currently am using amquel since it says it takes out nitrates and nitrites as well. So just choose one I guess.
2. Fire belly toads are a good choice. Personally I think 5-6 could fit comfortably in a tank this size.
3)Other species you can keep in here BESIDES the fire belly toads are:
1)African clawed frogs(3 at most fit perfectly)
2)African dwarf frogs(5-9 since their tiny)
3)1 pacman frog
4)3toads(small sized 3-4inch)
5)Chorus frogs(2-3 at most)
6)Painted chubby frog(3-5)
7)American green tree frogs(they are rather small so 3-4 is okay just make sure you provide lots of branches for climbing. That SHOULD in MY opinion be enough for them)
Iam sure there are some mores but I cant think of anything else.

As for poison darts. Ived got no experience on them. But I see them at my friends house he has the blue ones with the black dots. He doesnt have much trouble with them. Like any other frog their not OVERLY hard to care for its just they need certain things. For example they need coverage, they need small foods, they need high humidity and high temps. I dont know the exact details but Iam pretty sure some people on here can give you the details. As for feeding them, you know how you feed a chameleon? You put the insects in a cup and let the chameleon eat it out of the cup. It MAY work for the frogs. You can feed it stuff like pin head crickets, weavils, and fruit flies. I dont know if they may take even pheonix worms. Pheonix worms are the size of half an inch. I mean I bought some myself and was rather disapointed at first. But I ended up using them anyways(they were too small for the animal I was going to feed em too). You can always get a high tiped dish. Make sure you put small quantities and feed them there. Voila.

Well this is all in my opinion. So I hope this helps.

[Kurt]

I wouldn't recommend any Pipid (clawed frogs) for this enclosure, they are totally aquatic and the land are would be a waste. I believe pac-mans and Bufonids (true toads) are poor swimmers, so they won't work either. Not sure on the chubby, Kaloula pulchra. The Hylids (chorus and treefrogs) would be better off in a taller tank.

Darts, believe it or not, like cooler temperatures than one might expect. The tank should never exceed 80 F if possible. Once in a while is fine, but continued exposure to 80+ temps is detrimental.

For what its worth, a feeding dish will not work with bean weevils or fruit flies, they both can easily climb out. Keep in mind crickets are good jumpers.

[Deku]

I wouldn't recommend any Pipid (clawed frogs) for this enclosure, they are totally aquatic and the land are would be a waste. I believe pac-mans and Bufonids (true toads) are poor swimmers, so they won't work either. Not sure on the chubby, Kaloula pulchra. The Hylids (chorus and treefrogs) would be better off in a taller tank.

Darts, believe it or not, like cooler temperatures than one might expect. The tank should never exceed 80 F if possible. Once in a while is fine, but continued exposure to 80+ temps is detrimental.

For what its worth, a feeding dish will not work with bean weevils or fruit flies, they both can easily climb out. Keep in mind crickets are good jumpers.

I never said put a pipid in a terrestrial set up. o.O; I just stated frogs that would do well IN a 20gallon tank. Bufonids are poor swimmers-agreed. But again never said putting one in a aquatic set up. I just stated names of animals that could go in a 20gallon tank. Not what kind of set up itd be or anything. Also if the frogs are by the dish they may learn to feed from the dish. I feed my animals by a dish. Their live foods, but they learn to come to the dish on their own. Currently those toads I found feed near the dish. Its just easier for the frogs to see a crawling insect on a plain surface. You know? Their not meant to be kept inside. Also crickets do jump-yes. But the smaller crickets are less likely to jump than the larger ones if they dont need to jump. Seriously the ones I keep feeding dont jump. Oddly enough they just crawl around. Only the adults or the medium sized ones do that. Maybe its just a weird batch? In any case the frogs would be sitting by the dish and anything that crawls into the dish and out will be snacked upon by the frogs. I mean they arent super intelligent animals, but they arent dumb either.