My next setup for my PCFs, need lots of input

[fish4all]

Okay, right now 7 of them are in a 10 gallon tank. They are crowded and I will be moving up to a 20 gallon as soon as I can.

I want to make a section of it full water with rocks and twigs, I am thinking an 8 inches long and 8 inches deep, possibly larger. I know how to do this, silicone a piece of glass inside to secure it. PCF will lay eggs in 6 inches of water so I figured that was a good size to start with and gives me enough room to add some small rocks and twigs.

I currently have coconut coir for a substrate mixed with worm castings. The frogs don't mind it but it sticks them and makes a mess out of their mall water dish.

The tank is planted with 3 species of Peperomia, I have a 2 inch Hydroton under layer with widow screen for a substrate barrier. The plants are thriving and outgrowing the tank even though I was told that Peperomia only get 8-10 inches tall. Well the ones not in the tank are over 16 inches tall. I have to trim them often in the tank.

I want to stick with what has worked, but I want to make the bottom more frog friendly. I have thought about moss but I do not know how much competition there would be for nutrients with the Peperomia. I doubt it will be an issue but I had to ask. The frogs love the Peperomia though I think I will remove the smaller species because they really break it up and have it laying down instead of standing up now.

Is there a moss that will tolerate room temps of 72F and not a lot of light? I have a full spectrum compact fluorescent over the tank now and plan on putting a higher watt bulb over the new enclosure when I get it set up. As far as a filter, will one of those sponge filters work to provide filtration, circulation and bacterial surface area?

How thick do I need the Hydroton layer to be? Is 2 inches about right or can I go shallower for more plant growth room? I have never seen any water accumulate in the bottom.

I honestly have read tons of articles on here and everywhere else, these few questions are the ones I have not been able to find solid answers to.

[deranged chipmunk]

Okay, right now 7 of them are in a 10 gallon tank. They are crowded and I will be moving up to a 20 gallon as soon as I can.

I want to make a section of it full water with rocks and twigs, I am thinking an 8 inches long and 8 inches deep, possibly larger. I know how to do this, silicone a piece of glass inside to secure it. PCF will lay eggs in 6 inches of water so I figured that was a good size to start with and gives me enough room to add some small rocks and twigs.

I currently have coconut coir for a substrate mixed with worm castings. The frogs don't mind it but it sticks them and makes a mess out of their mall water dish.

The tank is planted with 3 species of Peperomia, I have a 2 inch Hydroton under layer with widow screen for a substrate barrier. The plants are thriving and outgrowing the tank even though I was told that Peperomia only get 8-10 inches tall. Well the ones not in the tank are over 16 inches tall. I have to trim them often in the tank.

I want to stick with what has worked, but I want to make the bottom more frog friendly. I have thought about moss but I do not know how much competition there would be for nutrients with the Peperomia. I doubt it will be an issue but I had to ask. The frogs love the Peperomia though I think I will remove the smaller species because they really break it up and have it laying down instead of standing up now.

Is there a moss that will tolerate room temps of 72F and not a lot of light? I have a full spectrum compact fluorescent over the tank now and plan on putting a higher watt bulb over the new enclosure when I get it set up. As far as a filter, will one of those sponge filters work to provide filtration, circulation and bacterial surface area?

How thick do I need the Hydroton layer to be? Is 2 inches about right or can I go shallower for more plant growth room? I have never seen any water accumulate in the bottom.

I honestly have read tons of articles on here and everywhere else, these few questions are the ones I have not been able to find solid answers to.

ok, first off, it took me way too long to figure out what PCF stood for....LOL

i would stick with the 2" of hydroton (go with what works ) besides, it's only an inch, and unless you are going 20L, you would be gaining more space with the height of the tank alone. although you are going to lose quite a bit with 8" of substrate on your land side.

most mosses are epiphytic, so there would be no competition for nutrients. most true mosses do not need bright light to flourish, a cfl will work just fine.

filters, you cannot beat a sponge filter for bio and mechanical filtration, the downside is they are big, bulky and ugly. you could go with a small submersible filter, that way, if you choose you want chemical filtration (charcoal, ammonia remover, what have you), you always have the option.

the only thing i would suggest is adding some peat moss to the worm casting/coco fiber mix. or sprinkling a layer of laterite, or clay. plants loves them some iron!!

[fish4all]

I know it will look odd but I don't plan on having the substrate 8 inches high. I was thinking I would build a ramp of either soil or some other material, I was thinking ceramic or fired clay. That way there is a cave by the water and I don't lose 8 inches of tank height, more like 3-4 inches.

I will have to go through what I feed my composting worms in my terrarium/vivarium bin and see if there is enough iron in their food to make the soil rich enough. I know it would only last a short time because plants will eat it up. I need to do a dose of compost tea pretty soon. Adding a layer of laterite won't be hard for a new setup anyway. Adding it now would be impossible.

Does peat have more iron than coconut coir or have much at all?

Also, would it benefit the tank to have a complete cover of moss or benefit the frogs? I guess local moss could be an option but there are so many bugs here I never know what I am putting in there with it.

[fish4all]

I just realized why the PCF threw you off. I have gotten so used to seeing and using acronyms I didn't even realize. Pacific Chorus Frogs, PCF, are my little friends.

I know they are not going to be the most challenging of frogs to keep compared to PDF or others but they deserve my best attempt none the least.

[deranged chipmunk]

I know it will look odd but I don't plan on having the substrate 8 inches high. I was thinking I would build a ramp of either soil or some other material, I was thinking ceramic or fired clay. That way there is a cave by the water and I don't lose 8 inches of tank height, more like 3-4 inches.

I will have to go through what I feed my composting worms in my terrarium/vivarium bin and see if there is enough iron in their food to make the soil rich enough. I know it would only last a short time because plants will eat it up. I need to do a dose of compost tea pretty soon. Adding a layer of laterite won't be hard for a new setup anyway. Adding it now would be impossible.

Does peat have more iron than coconut coir or have much at all?

Also, would it benefit the tank to have a complete cover of moss or benefit the frogs? I guess local moss could be an option but there are so many chorus f bugs here I never know what I am putting in there with it.

that sounds pretty cool. I can't wait to see it. i have been considering getting chorus frogs for a while. It's on the list of projects, so i am curious to see how it turns out.

And yeah, i was talking about adding the laterite in the new tank. Peat will have more nutrients in general since coir has no nutritional value whatsoever. Btw, kudos on using the worm castings, i thought i was the only one who used it.....lol

[fish4all]

I asked in so many locations before using worm castings to see if anyone thought they were safe or proper to use and no one had a clue. Wish I would have found this forum first.

Maybe someday I will graduate to a more difficult species of frog.

[deranged chipmunk]

wow, i am surprised you couldn't get an answer. oh well, obviously, you know this, but yes, earthworm castings are safe.....so is bat guano, and many other natural ferts. i use them in all my vivs

[Guenhwyvar]

PCFs are more terrestrial than an actual tree frog and are no longer considered to be in the same group. They are a grass frog, they like to climb, but they don't climb very high off the ground. They also aren't very good swimmers and can easily drown. I made the mistake of giving my first group a water hole that was about 4" long and 4" wide with rocks and stuff to climb on, but I found them all floating upsidedown in the water the next day =( So be very cautious with large water features, a very shallow one that they can sit in and still have their head above water would work for adult frogs I think. I just built my enclosures, it's a lot of fun. I just have to wait to get more frogs again. I've raised over 10 from tadpoles now, but I gave up after all my frog tanks were infested with mites from the crickets I bought from the petstore. I lost 7 frogs, my PCFs and my pacman. Mites are hard to get rid of. I hope everything has worked out with your frogs and your enclosure makes them happy.