Malochio and Bruce 1/22/2012

[Herpguy]

I'm thinking of Quail Chicks not chickens. Sorry .Anyway, rodents also have a tendency to overload their system with protein causing a form of cloudy eye to form from the protein building up in the eye and if rodent are fed continually it will perminantly blind the frog. I've not heard this with feeding chicks, but it is possible with feeding your frog anything that can potentially overload their system with protein. Fat buildup like this can also occur.

Actually quail have a higher fat content than either of them at 31.9%. I have seen only maybe one or two cases of the "cloudy eye" and I am very skeptical on it being because of a rodent diet, as they have less protein than insects of similar size. Phillipe de Vosjoli himself advocates a rodent only diet once they reach adulthood. As stated before, I have an ornata that is going on 7 years of a nearly rodent exclusive diet with zero problems whatsoever, and I remember Ed Clark fed everything he had rodent only diets, including his cornuta.

[GrifTheGreat]

Actually quail have a higher fat content than either of them at 31.9%. I have seen only maybe one or two cases of the "cloudy eye" and I am very skeptical on it being because of a rodent diet, as they have less protein than insects of similar size. Phillipe de Vosjoli himself advocates a rodent only diet once they reach adulthood. As stated before, I have an ornata that is going on 7 years of a nearly rodent exclusive diet with zero problems whatsoever, and I remember Ed Clark fed everything he had rodent only diets, including his cornuta.

Philippe is where my info on protein overload causing blindness is coming from. You cannot compare the tissues of an insect to a mammal or avian tissues. They are more complex and more dense. Whether these breeders still practice these feeding techniques or not I don't know, but that came from Philippes mouth not his books. I'm not one to argue over such things or change how anyone feeds their animals. What you feed your pets is your choice. I'm just offering a precaution. I've seen quite a few frogs fed only rodent die before reaching their average lifespan. More so since I've been on here. What the rodents are fed prior to being offered as food is the ultimate factor that will determin their protein and fat content not just an empty mouse. They are gutloaded just as insects are. Feed them an abundance of protein rich foods and they will cause an overload.

Protein overload can lead to kidney and liver failure as well. Basically too much of a good thing is just as bad as not enough.

[Herpguy]

It's so confusing because there really is no definitive answer on the subject. This information has been floating around for years and unfortunately it really isn't worth it for researchers to do studies on it, since there likely wouldn't be any grants. Hopefully one day somebody can actually get a straight answer on the subject.

[GrifTheGreat]

It's so confusing because there really is no definitive answer on the subject. This information has been floating around for years and unfortunately it really isn't worth it for researchers to do studies on it, since there likely wouldn't be any grants. Hopefully one day somebody can actually get a straight answer on the subject.

I agree. Maybe even some of us could do a study on this.

[DeeDub]

I'll jump on that horse Herp. These frogs are fat as $hit. That's cool. Feed em what you want, but these frogs are morbidly obese.

I don't take issue with fat frogs....I've seen you all roast the H e l l out of a new member who is making minor mistakes. It really gets me riled up to see hypocrisy this bad.

Noob, I dig your frogs. Keep up the good work. We don't need a spin on fat frogs though. They're not models that need to diet. Its cool that they're fat. Better than skinny.
Just the fact that you've successfully Brumated them for extended periods is testament to your husbandry.
Every quality care sheet I've read states variety is good for them. Would an adult in the wild eat like this? No. We can't perfectly mimic their wild diet (and probably shouldn't).....my point is, if we are going to push good husbandry practice on every other thread in this forum, why the H e l l are we making.g an exception here?

[Herpguy]

Very good point DeeDub. I would like to see pictures of these frogs "deflated," because I do know that fat frogs can have huge differences in body size after they pee.