new WTF owner need help with humidity

[shatrar]

Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum and brand new froggie grandma (they are a gift for my 10yr old daughter). We did quite a bit of research while deciding on a species, and finally chose white's because they seemed like a beginner frog and they are too darn cute! So we set up our old fish aquarium for frogs, then bought a couple last Saturday. The first couple of days went ok, but now I'm getting very concerned that our set up isn't ideal and the little guys aren't doing as well. The main issue is humidity, it just won't stay high enough even though I am misting about every other hour. I found this forum (after we set up the tank of course ) and have been reading as much as possible on here, now I'm paranoid that our little guys will get sick. My husband says I'm obsessing but I can't stand the thought of them not being healthy and happy. Here are the answers to "trouble in the enclosure", I'm hoping that all of you can help me out. They were both very light green but now Fred is starting to look brownish.

I was wondering if we should get the substrate really wet to help with humidity, or will that cause bacteria growth? Do we need to have a false bottom? Also the heat lamp doesn't seem to be quite warm enough, what additional heat source would you suggest? Can this tank set up be salvaged somehow or do we need a whole new terrarium?

1-enclosure is 24x12x20", 25 gal aquarium
2- 2 white's tree frog babies
3- humidity currently ranges from around 60 right after misting but quickly drops back to 30
4- temp is 75 day, 65 night
5-water is tap treated with reptisafe
6-substrate is coco fiber and also some moss I think it's sphagnum...
7-plants are all artificial, with one upright and a couple suctioned to the sides. Also some "jungle vine", and a soaking dish.
8-main food source is crickets and sometimes mealworms
9-vitamins and calcium ? not yet, we still have to buy this
10-lighting is a flourescent lamp for day
11- heat source is an infra red lamp on top of the screen
12- they have been eating every day
13- they were pooping regular, last one found yesterday morning I think, nothing that I've seen today but I did see them both go pee.
15- babies
16- this is day 4
17- captive bred
18- 3-4 small crickets a piece per day, and they've had meal worms twice. They both ate today, but George ate better than Fred.
19- I've handled them a couple of times, not much, just to separate them to opposite sides of the tank if one of them has already had their fill of crickets.
20-the enclosure is in the hallway, but our house is really quiet.

Thank you in advance, Michelle

[shatrar]

Also I watched Fred have some really bizarre behaviour, I have no idea what's going on. He started doing a lot of yawning, stretching, contorting his tummy, rubbing his face, and making a clacking noise. I thought he was going to die. He eventually stopped and then ate later so....what on earth was that about??

[flybyferns]

Also I watched Fred have some really bizarre behaviour, I have no idea what's going on. He started doing a lot of yawning, stretching, contorting his tummy, rubbing his face, and making a clacking noise. I thought he was going to die. He eventually stopped and then ate later so....what on earth was that about??

Hi Michelle,
Again, welcome to Frog Forum.

Your frog was shedding. Perfectly normal.

Please read:
http://www.frogforum.net/content/whi...-caerulea-121/

I am unable to answer most of your other questions right now - sorry. ( have to leave for work !!!)
I will check back later

*take the moss out (can cause impaction if swallowed)
*cover the top w/plexi or glass to help hold the humidity in
-there is a need for temp and humidity adjustments ! covering will help...for starters

Lots of great people here----I'm sure you will get additional help before I get home. ( 4ish)
Lynn

[steampunk]

Welcome, WTF are a great choice.

First off, like Lynn said, I'd cover the top of the aquarium with perspects to keep the humidity in. Maybe add a few pot plants like pothos, philododren (think that's how you spell it) peace lily etc. They help with humidity, give something to climb on, and look good.

The yawning is normal, its how they shed their skin, they eat it. Although if their shedding and the humidity keeps dropping down to 30% you must be doing a good job at misting, as they do this in humid environments, as I understand it.

What type of humidity gauge do you have? I recommend a digital one, as these seem more accurate.

If you can put some pictures up of your setup and frogs that would be great.

And remember enjoy your frogs ;-)

[shatrar]

The humidity has been a little better the last 24 hours. I think it's because it warmed up a little today and we didn't have a fire going. Sucks all the moisture out of the house. So I've been looking at automatic misters and humidifiers, like Exo Terra Monsoon or Zoo Med reptile fogger. They get mixed reviews on amazon. Any suggestions? Also if I cover up the screen top won't the frogs need fresh air somehow? I'm using the petco hygrometer, it's a dial, not digital. It's also at the top of the tank so I'm assuming it's actually more humid down by the substrate. I'll peel it off and move it lower next time I clean.
Went to the pet store to get crickets and came home with 2 more babies, Ron and Charlie. So I'm looking at new tanks, maybe the Exo Terra 24x18x24" or 24x18x36". I plan to order it in the next couple of days. What size under tank heater should I get?

Thanks, Michelle

[shatrar]

Oh I should add all the babies are green and cruising around the tank tonight

[EJT97]

Are all the babies the same size?

[shatrar]

Are all the babies the same size?

three of them are about 2", the fourth is a little shorter.

[EJT97]

You can add the three together and the 4th unless the 4th is significantly shorter, the WTFs will eat smaller, living things

[shatrar]

You can add the three together and the 4th unless the 4th is significantly shorter, the WTFs will eat smaller, living things

I realize that, it would be physically impossible for any of the 3 to eat the 4th. He is not that much smaller. Any suggestions on my questions?

[EJT97]

For the tank you should get the biggest your budget will allow you. Also, for the top you would need fresh air, maybe use a mesh top and I don't have a mister so I can't help you with that sorry!

[shatrar]

Thank you. I've just ordered the Mist King system. Now to figure out the rest

[EJT97]

Good luck

[HerpDerp]

Welcome to the Frog Forum, Michelle! (which is my name as well lol)

I just saw this post today! What you have right now is a good temporary tank until you can get a bigger one. I would definitely recommend the larger exo-terra. You can make a false bottom for that one and truly perfect it before you put your frogs in it. I highly recommend visiting the vivarium subforum to get some good suggestions on how to make it look great.

A few comments/suggestions for you:
1. I wouldn't bother with feeding meal worms at all. They can cause impaction if fed too much and don't really hold much nutritional value (to my knowledge anyways).

2. Definitely get some live plants in there. They are more ascetically pleasing and help a ton with humidity. Scott had some great suggestions. Pothos does awesome in a vivarium and will provide lots of cover. I would also suggest a snake plant (not sure of scientific name). My frogs LOVE to climb on the tall, stiff leaves.

3. Get rid of the sphagnum moss. It DOES help with humidity but can also pose quite the impaction risk if it is swallowed. If you want some moss in there to help with humidity I suggest regular sheet moss (not sure of exactly what it's called?).

4. Your temps seem a bit low. I use a ceramic heat emitter that does a great job in my 18x18x24. A 150w with a dimmer to control power would do wonders. I would steer away from under tank heaters since they don't do very much and tend to burn out quickly. Insulating your tank will help with heat as well. Maybe cardboard on three sides of the tank? And if you use plastic wrap on half of the top of the tank it will help hold in heat and moisture.

I hope this helps!

[shatrar]

Hi Michelle! I already took out the moss, it made too much of a hiding place for the crickets anyway. I'll toss the mealworms too. And I moved the tank even further from the fireplace. I'll wrap the tank with a towel or something for now until I find a better option. Does the ceramic heat emitter sit on top of the tank too?

I'm currently using a regular spray bottle for them, I'd like to get a misting bottle but the reviews on amazon are pretty bad. What do you use? Hopefully the Mist King doesn't take too long to arrive. And I can use that in the temp tank until I set up the new larger one.

Regarding the new set up, I'm looking at either the 24x18x24 (will this be big enough for them?) or the 24x18x36 (which may be too big for our living room) Exo Terra. I haven't really seen other brands besides this and the Zoo Med, which is too small. What other options are out there? I'd really like to have the front opening doors, after just a few days of lifting that water dish out the top of our aquarium I can tell I need something more convenient, especially so my daughter can start caring for them (they are supposed to be hers ).

I'll do live plants when I do the larger set up. Maybe I'll stick a little potted plant in there now. Question about the live potted plant, I'm assuming the plant soil they come in will be a no no for the frogs, what can I use that would be ok?

Thank you! Michelle

[shatrar]

Fred and Ron have been croaking today so I know they are boys. I love it! They are such cuties.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

I am also a new keeper of WTF "Bubba"
So far I only have one and I have a 18X18X24 exo-terra and love it.
I use both a infra red bulb and a 100W ceramic heater.
I also use a Zoomed repti-foger.
and all of the above is controlled by a hygrotherm HT-10 controller.
I started bowl feeding him a few weeks ago and it works great. I have a 3 inch diameter pyrex clear glass bowl.
that I place crickets in at night fall every other day 4 to 5 medium crickets and he cleans the bowl before the AM.

At the moment the substrate I have is paper towels. I change them out ever other day and if he
soils them.
I plan on getting the EXO-terra moss mats that are washable.

[HerpDerp]

Hi Michelle! I already took out the moss, it made too much of a hiding place for the crickets anyway. I'll toss the mealworms too. And I moved the tank even further from the fireplace. I'll wrap the tank with a towel or something for now until I find a better option. Does the ceramic heat emitter sit on top of the tank too?

A Ceramic heat emitter is a ceramic "bulb" that only gives off heat instead of light. I use a flucker's clamp lamp with the dimmer and I hang it over the tank so it doesn't get too close (these things get HOT). But they do sell stands for them as well.

I'm currently using a regular spray bottle for them, I'd like to get a misting bottle but the reviews on amazon are pretty bad. What do you use? Hopefully the Mist King doesn't take too long to arrive. And I can use that in the temp tank until I set up the new larger one.

I just grabbed a 98 cent spray bottle from the cleaning section at walmart. That thing has some high output! Lol.

Regarding the new set up, I'm looking at either the 24x18x24 (will this be big enough for them?) or the 24x18x36 (which may be too big for our living room) Exo Terra. I haven't really seen other brands besides this and the Zoo Med, which is too small. What other options are out there? I'd really like to have the front opening doors, after just a few days of lifting that water dish out the top of our aquarium I can tell I need something more convenient, especially so my daughter can start caring for them (they are supposed to be hers ).

I would highly recommend the larger exo-terra. WTFs get pretty big and 4 of them are going to need as much space as possible. Exo-terra is your best quick and easy option IMO. I'm not sure what other options there are, besides making your own.

I'll do live plants when I do the larger set up. Maybe I'll stick a little potted plant in there now. Question about the live potted plant, I'm assuming the plant soil they come in will be a no no for the frogs, what can I use that would be ok?

Thank you! Michelle

I just take the plant out of the pot and thoroughly wash the whole plant including the roots and then plant it directly into the eco earth. This works best with a false bottom since it prevents standing water from accumulating bacteria in the substrate. But for now since you probably want to keep the plant potted in the current set up you can just make sure you cover the soil in the pot really well with eco earth and wash the plant off really well before putting it in. There are other things you can do with layering substrate and using special potting mix etc but I don't have much experience on that end.

[deranged chipmunk]

I just take the plant out of the pot and thoroughly wash the whole plant including the roots and then plant it directly into the eco earth. This works best with a false bottom since it prevents standing water from accumulating bacteria in the substrate. But for now since you probably want to keep the plant potted in the current set up you can just make sure you cover the soil in the pot really well with eco earth and wash the plant off really well before putting it in. There are other things you can do with layering substrate and using special potting mix etc but I don't have much experience on that end.

that's where i come in

[deeishealthy]

I'm incredibly pleased with my setup! You can see it in this pic. From the bottom: river rock, four layers of screen, potting soil, then topped with cocofibre. I have a piece of tubing running from the bottom of the tank up the back and out so I can drain it. It's simple an efficient, but very heavy, so make sure if you do something like this it's properly supported.