HELP! Bullfrog gone completely brown, no green!

[Heatheranne]

Lol!!!

[Gnag the nameless]

Very bad news. The Garden store was closed, and the pet store had to water plant, we could only get the wallpaper. As for the UV light, I couldn't find one at Canadian Tire, and we didn't have time to check in the pet store. I'm afraid my frogs might die with no Vitamin D. Is there anything I can do to help them? I've no idea when I'll be able to get a UV light. Worst of all, Bumpy has turned brown as well! They're both active, eating, and swimming as fast as normal. No discolored nose, as far as I can see. But Bumpy did go in the rock cave [Partially on land] with Gnag as well today. I don't know what to do... maybe a full water change and cleaning of the log?

[Heatheranne]

If your calcium supplement has vitamin D3 in it and he is eating, he should be fine. I'm still glad to hear he's moving around.

[Gnag the nameless]

I've only got pure calcium, as far as I can tell. I got it in a small bag from one of the people at the pet store, as a sample [though it may last me months]. Both frogs are swimming [Bumpy just bolted across the tank when I shined the flashlight towards the filter], eating, it's just the coloration that's gone wrong. Maybe give both frogs a warm bath, and refresh the water when I buy some more on Thursday? I might be able to get more water tomorrow, actually. I just feel really hopeless right now, I don't know what to do. I've taken another picture of Gnag [I just lifted the rock cave] and I can finally see the blue line on her nose. I haven't seen the nose discoloration since.

[Gnag the nameless]

I have now wallpapered the sides of the tank, and taken the final leap: I've added moss that I originally used in the 20G. It's exactly like the store-bought frog moss, it's from my garden. I know, I know, it could contain harmful stuff or my frogs could ingest it, but my frogs lived in it ever since I got them, and nothing went amiss, and neither have they been sick from the moss, ever. I'm hoping to get the UV light soon. Oh well, we'll see if this works.

[Gnag the nameless]

I'm going to get the water plants [And hopefully] UV on Thursday. I honestly am thinking of taking her to a vet, I fear it could be some kind of an infection or ailment like you said earlier. I'm just really concerned, and I'm really feeling down about this whole matter. It was sunny today, and the room was fairly lit up with no lights on. Perhaps that might give them some Vitamin D. I suppose this will just take time, patience, water plants, a UV lamp, and maybe a water change. I forgot to post this picture, it's clearer, and it shows her nose. Maybe this will present us with clues.

[UncleChester]

Unfortunately it's still pretty hard to tell much from that picture- the frog is out of focus. Most cameras will let you half press the shutter and the camera will then lock the focus onto something. A full press will take the picture. Things that can go wrong- the frog is closer than the minimum focus distance (this seems likely here, the specs should be in your camera manual) or the camera has decided to lock focus on something else. I suggest the following:

-If your camera has a 'macro mode' you should use it (it then knows to look for close stuff).
-Zoom in to the longest focal length (most magnification).
-Aim the camera so the frog is in the centre of the picture, then half press the shutter button and wait for it to lock the focus onto something.
-If the frog is still blurry, move back and try again.
-If you're worried about stressing the frog by taking a bunch of pictures, you can practice on something frog sized until you figure out how to get a clear, in-focus picture and learn the limits of your camera (reading the manual can be a help here).

-Alternatively, you seemed to have better luck with the camera you used in the photo of the two of them together in post #5 if that ones still available (it has a different naming scheme, so I'm assuming that it was a different camera).

Your main concern is still the colour right? Are you very familiar with the natural variations of bullfrogs? If not, you might want to spend some time looking at pictures of them. Their natural array of colours is quite staggering (these are mostly the right bullfrogs): https://www.google.com/search?q=amer...w=1680&bih=889

A vet isn't wrong if you're still worried and have a qualified one nearby.

[Gnag the nameless]

I know, I've always been bad at taking pictures. I just tried to give her a Physical Examination, but she was much too fast, so that tells you something. And I need to charge my camera up.

Yes, that's my main concern. And as for those photo's, the majority, if not all of those frogs, have some green on them. Gnag is completely green-less although she used to be as green as frog moss. Here are two pictures of Gnag in her previous setup, a 20G with moss and plants


And beside Bumpy:


And you saw how she is now. Bumpy is still roughly the same color. Also, I found a picture of a Bullfrog that looks EXACTLY like Gnag does right now, other than being a bit skinnier than Gnag, and with no black spots, and rougher skin than Gnag.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/davemed...n/photostream/

As for if I'm worried... worried? I've been stressed out completely! I've not been able to concentrate at school, or even have a good time with my friends. As for the Vet idea, I do know of a Vet nearby that treats exotics and is highly recommended, and I know a Vet is a good idea, but it's an expensive one too. Could I give her a warm bath in de-chlorinated water instead, or just to help her? And to decrease the stress, I could wait till night, and take a picture of her then, standing up against the glass [she does that, and swims around as well]. I just really wish she was normal again, so I could relax at School, and just feel better about my frogs, not feel sad or remorseful when I think about them.

[NatureLady]

I am glad you found some help on your problem...these two know their stuff.

[UncleChester]

I know, I've always been bad at taking pictures.

So practice. They don't have to be works of art, but being able to take reasonably clear photos will go a long way when seeking help from people who can't see your frog in person.

Yes, that's my main concern. And as for those photo's, the majority, if not all of those frogs, have some green on them.

There are some that are very dark with little or no green visible, like the one you linked to.

And you saw how she is now. Bumpy is still roughly the same color. Also, I found a picture of a Bullfrog that looks EXACTLY like Gnag does right now, other than being a bit skinnier than Gnag, and with no black spots, and rougher skin than Gnag.

American Bullfrog (Rana catesbeiana), female - profile | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

In the event that Dave doesn't respond, you can glean a few things from the info with this picture. The frog was likely wild as the location is listed as a creek and I can't recall him posting a picture of an amphibian that wasn't wild (I've been a 'contact' of his on Flickr since early last year). The Exif data says the photo was taken 4:22pm October 16, 2012, and it appears to be lit primarily by the flash (the exif looks to be lying about the flash, but the reflection in the eye is a dead giveaway).

The bullfrog in this picture looks to be healthy, it's skin colour would not worry me. Nor would a dark colour like this with darker spots on it worry me.

Could I give her a warm bath in de-chlorinated water instead, or just to help her?

Honestly, I'd be inclined to leave it alone as much as possible. Eating, pooping, alert and active when it needs to be, slimy skin as it should be... there's not much else to ask for with a healthy frog.

Some vets will do fecal exams if you bring them a sample. This will cost less than a full on examination if money is an issue and can provide some piece of mind on the parasite side. You can ask the one near you if they provide this service.

[Gnag the nameless]

Great news, everybody!


UV LAMP INSTALLED!

Gnag is already sitting partially in the light, as if enjoying it, as I type this, and I've also added 4 fake lilypads. I refreshed about 4 L of the water, so that might do some good. I got the UV lightbulb from a pet store, and it was actually designed for frogs and snakes, I've read all over the label many times. I quote: Stimulates appetite, activity, and reproductive behavior through UVA Radiation.

As for the Lily pads, I did a non-chlorinated water soak before adding the lilypads to the tank. I really feel that my frogs will get better now that they have the proper UV light. If Gnag's condition does not change within a week, at all, then a fecal test and medical examination will be the course of action. If her condition worsens before then, the same procedure will follow.

Quick question: With the UV lamp, sides wallpapered, good diet, and lilypads, how long will it take for Gnag to get back to "normal"? And is it possible that this is actually her normal?

Quick question 2: Could this be caused by a parasitic infection? I know it's highly unlikely, since I've had them for 4 months, but it's just been nagging at me for a while, since they did come from a lake-marsh.


And thanks so much guys. It means a lot to me. If you ever want info, advice, or anything similar from me, I owe you indefinitely so.

[Gnag the nameless]

One thing I think might possibly be of importance is that when I shine the light on the top of the water, there appears to be an extremely thin film or layer on the surface. It's kind of blueish. Any ideas? Maybe the water hasn't been filtering properly.

As for the conditions with the UV, I'm keeping the UV light on from the second I wake up [Weekdays, 7:00-8:00 AM, weekends 8-12 AM] and turning it more towards the tank when I return from school or at 3:00 on the weekends, turning it away at 6:00 PM, and shutting it off at 7:00-8:00.

Gnag's condition seemed a bit brighter when I found her basking yesterday, but it's the same brown once more today. Should I add more foliage?

[demon amphibians]

remember to keep an eye on its under belly if brownish red spots are occurring it is fungal. Your frogs health will go back and forth from good to bad. And these spots can come and go. This is the only illness i have experienced but color change was the first indicator i noticed.

[Gnag the nameless]

Alright, I'll check her right now. Thanks for the info, Demon.

Can't find anything unusual on Bumpy's belly. Gnag was too fast for me to get, either. I'll probably just leave them alone now. They were hopping and swimming last night, and eating the crickets I'd placed on the lily pads, so they seem fine.

One quick note: Gnag likes to bask in the evening, and whenever she does, her coloration brightens to green snaking around the brown and black, like this frog:

http://soundwaves.usgs.gov/2006/01/B...rown_altLG.jpg

But when I check in the morning, it is brown again. Could this hint at anything? I'll add more foliage soon as well.
Bumpy's colors are a bit dramatic, one day she's greenish, the other, the same color as Gnag. It's always been this way with Bumpy, though her colors are usually on the darker side.

[demon amphibians]

I really don't think its fungal based on what you have mentioned. If it was something life threatening such as a fungal infection your frogs would be lethargic and wouldn't eat let alone hop around. But its is definitely something to keep an eye on. Glad I could give what little Knowledge I can. I hope your frogs have many more years of hopping around eating bugs.

[Gnag the nameless]

Yeah, I doubt that too, they've been eating, swimming, hopping, basking, and pooping just like normal. Hopefully in the summer they'll get back to normal, or when I add more foliage. And I always do keep an eye on my hoppers.

Thanks for helping a fellow frog fanatic if you need any advice, suggestions, or anything, just ask.

[Heatheranne]

Hi! Sorry I've been away. Long work weekend. Just finished actually.

Can you take another picture of your whole tank with the new changes?

[Heatheranne]

One thing I think might possibly be of importance is that when I shine the light on the top of the water, there appears to be an extremely thin film or layer on the surface. It's kind of blueish. Any ideas? Maybe the water hasn't been filtering properly.

As for the conditions with the UV, I'm keeping the UV light on from the second I wake up [Weekdays, 7:00-8:00 AM, weekends 8-12 AM] and turning it more towards the tank when I return from school or at 3:00 on the weekends, turning it away at 6:00 PM, and shutting it off at 7:00-8:00.

Gnag's condition seemed a bit brighter when I found her basking yesterday, but it's the same brown once more today. Should I add more foliage?

Hmmm....I'm not sure what the blue-ish layer would be. Is it shiny or swirling like oil? It may be a residue from something in the tank? When did the layer appear? Does it float on top and break-up when they splash in the water?

The day/night cycle should be approx. 12 hrs daylight, 12 hrs nightlight or close to that.

What color background did you decide to do?

I am wondering if he's just trying to blend into his surroundings, like camouflage. If you have a lot of brown, gray, or black in the tank he may turn brownish gray. Lots of green will encourage their green color.

If you can I'd like to see a picture of the tank.

[Gnag the nameless]

That's fine, the weekend was busy for me too.

The blue layer is a bit swirly like oil, it could be from my hands, humans do have oils and salts on their skins, which is the reason I use gloves while handling the frogs.

I was thinking that the combination of rocks and log are what is causing her to turn brown, it's certainly possible.

Here's the tank, and you can see the background here as well:



In the upper right corner, there is the UV Lamp. Don't worry, those little scoops are made to get out
drowned crickets and bio-waste. I use the flashlight to spot them at night, though only for a few seconds.

There are 4 lilypads, but one is hidden by the leaves.

Gnag and Bumpy both love to hide under the lilypads.
I often place crickets on the lilypads, too.

A crude view of the land part of the tank.

I feel like I'm demanding help from you, sorry if I am. I just care quite a lot for the hoppers. Anyways, I'm going to be adding foliage gradually, maybe when I run into some more money. I'd expect within a couple of weeks I'll have added more, possibly tomorrow.
Also, I wouldn't mind if you took a look at this post: http://www.frogforum.net/frogs/20622...bullfrogs.html

[Heatheranne]

It looks great! They should be happy in there. Try to skim off the oil with a paper towel and do a partial water change to get the rest of the oily substance out.

I honestly think he's ok if he's eating, pooping and swimming/hopping around normally.

Is that discoloration on his nose still there?

It's ok. I don't mind answering questions. I was nervous when I got my first frogs too.