HELP! (Well Water - Search did not find answer)

[PURP]

I have a 50 gallon aquarium that I use for a couple dozen tropical fish and 6 ADF's. I started it about a month ago with well water. I have the water tested regularly (I'm in PetSmart every few days anyway) and it has always tested perfect; except for pH... I think. I have a pH sensor in the tank which tells me that the pH is about 8.0; which according to the sensor, is high; but according to the literature that accompanies the PetSmart test, 8.0 is 'within normal range'...???? I'm really trying to do the right thing; I just can't figure out what that is.

1) What is an ideal pH for my tank?
2) What causes pH to go up? down? (I did read in this forum that well water could be the cause)
3) Should I do something to lower the pH?
4) If so, how?
5) If the pH in my tank is hurting my fish/frogs, how would it show?

HELP!

[deranged chipmunk]

I can help you with this, but i need more time than i have at work. i'll give you a more detailed explanation in a few hours, if no one responds by then

[Heatheranne]

The pH can be affected by different things. A low pH is acidic, often from too many nitrates (wastes) in the water. This can be corrected by more frequent water changes and assisted by a good biological filtration system. Sodium bicarbonate can also help, but with caution. A high pH (alkaline) is more likely related to heavy metals and/or chemicals or chemical byproducts found in the water. This can be corrected by making the water more acidic. The overall goal is good filtration with a nice biological filtration system and a routine of water changes. Be aware that different aquarium decorations can also affect the pH. Items such as natural wood can lower the pH and items such as shells and coral can increase the pH. There are different water agents you can add to the water to neutralize the pH. Check at your local aquarium shop. Take caution in adjusting the pH slowly so the fish and frogs do not go into shock.

Here is a nice article. DC will be able to help you more

http://www.fishyou.com/water.php

[PURP]

OK, just we all stay on the same page:

- All my decorations are plastic and were well rinsed prior to being put in the tank. Then the tank's filtering system was run for 48 hours (cycling water) prior to adding living creatures.
- As for cleaning, I use a syphon hose to remove about 2 buckets' worth of dirty water from the gravel and features, and then top up the tank with fresh water (from a country well) that is about 80 degrees. I do this every few days to remove as much visible poop as possible.
- I have an in-tank real-time ammonia monitor. I make sure it never goes above 'SAFE' (less than 0.02 ppm).

[Heatheranne]

It sounds like you're doing a good job. Odds are you probably have hard water from heavy metals and minerals in the local ground. Many fish can tolerate a pH range of 7.0 to 8.0. I am not sure about the frogs. I try to keep my tank around 7.0. What kind of filter do you have?

[deranged chipmunk]

ah, well water, or as i like to call it, liquid rock, presents a few challenges. As Heather so eloquently stated earlier, your well water is hard due to, mostly likely, passing through an aquifer of limestone, which creates a very hard, alkaline water. some species of flora and fauna don't mind a hard water column, but most prefer slightly soft and acidic water. i'll try to answer you questions as posed without stepping on Heather's toes. Last time i did that she sent me bad juju.....lol

1) What is an ideal pH for my tank?

from what i read, the ideal pH for ADF's is roughly 6.5-7.5, but can adapt to all ranges.

2) What causes pH to go up? down? (I did read in this forum that well water could be the cause)

besides the items that Heather mentioned, which, btw, were spot on (go Heather!) she forgot one thing, oxygen. high oxygen levels deplete co2 in the water column and that causes the pH to go up. high co2 levels and the pH goes down. this will play into my suggestions later

3) Should I do something to lower the pH?

that is up to you. the frogs will most likely be fine as long as nitrites (not nitrates, but they should be low as well) and ammonia stay low. the only concern you may have are the fish. you never mentioned what species you had in with the frogs.

4) If so, how?

there are a few things you can do. one is, like Heather mentioned previously, add driftwood. this will help soften the water. you can add peat to your filter, and that will work as well. in fact both of these may get you down to the 7.5 range, which should be good. another thing you can do is to mix your well water with either distilled or reverse osmosis (RO) water. most decent places that sell reef supplies normally have ro water for sale. petsmart does not offer this service. ordinarily, i would not recommend distilled water in any aquatic tank since it is devoid of any minerals, but you have a plethora of minerals, so mixing with distilled would be fine. the last option would be to use seachem excel. it is liquid carbon and adds co2 to the water column. you can also use a mix of Glutaraldehyde and water. Glut. is used in the medical field for disinfecting. but when cut with water and added to the water column, serves the same purpose as excel.

the one thing i disagree with Heather on, is the use of chemicals to buffer the water down. it's about the equivalent of pouring a gallon of algae killer in a tank instead of solving the root problem. it's nothing more than a crutch. personally, i prefer all natural ways of resolving the issue, and stay away from chemicals. i have had my pH in a shrimp tank down to 5.2, and i used 0 chemicals. granted, i started with 6.8, but still.

5) If the pH in my tank is hurting my fish/frogs, how would it show?

i wish i had an answer for you on this one, but i have never dealt with high pH, so i don't know what the symptoms are.

a couple other things, one, get yourself a good, quality test kit. i know petsmart tests for free, but it's all in interpretation. do your own testing, it's a great way to learn. admittedly, i never test the water in my tanks unless i am keeping a sensitive species of whatever hold my interest at that moment....lol also, take the info you recieve from petsmart with a grain of salt. some people at petsmart know what they are talking about, but sadly, most do not

good luck with the tank and if you have any questions, feel free to ask away.

[deranged chipmunk]

oh, i would like to add, i mentioned i do not test my water. i have been keeping tanks for 30+ years. i learned to recognize how my fish and plants behave under varying water conditions, so that is what i watch. i don't want anyone thinking you can just pour water into a tank and have at it.....LOL

[Heatheranne]

Thanks DC! I knew you'd help me out . My go-to water and plant man .

I rarely tested my tanks either, though I have city water. I used good bio filters and did my water changes. Though my aquariums, shall I say, only had fish at the time . But the same principles apply for water cycling, pH, etc.

[Heatheranne]

P.S. Lol, no bad juju for you . I am like a four leaf clover, bah ha ha ha!!! Just kidding, of course .

[deranged chipmunk]

indeed, all the same principals apply. which reminds me, 48 hours is not enough time to cycle a tank properly. you can add nitrifying bacteria from a vial, and that helps speed up the process, but normally, 6 weeks for a tank to be properly cycled, about 6 months for the bio filter to properly mature.

[deranged chipmunk]

P.S. Lol, no bad juju for you . I am like a four leaf clover, bah ha ha ha!!! Just kidding, of course .

i don't know about a four leaf clover, but i do know this much, you are a gem

[Heatheranne]

Awe thanks (blushing) .

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

And if you have a really good local fish store ( not kmart or petsmart , petco)
I am talking about a mom and pop store.
If you ask nicely you can get a sachet of gravel from one of their tanks
to help kickstart the cycle in your tank.
then you can add just a few flakes of fish food to feed the bacteria
and keep a close eye on the water stats and do water changes as needed.

[deranged chipmunk]

ammonium chloride works well too on an empty tank. ammonia levels need to be checked daily during the process though. too much work for me. another way is to have a new filter run on a mature tank for about two weeks, then moved to a new tank. instant cycle. that's how i do it, but i have numerous tanks to do it with.