Two males together?

[deeishealthy]

I bought Bert n Ernie together. They were housed in a very small tank in the store. I've now discovered they are both males having seen them both sing.

Browsing pics, I see a lot of them where the frogs are almost cuddling. Crawling on each other, anyways. Not in Froggieville, my vivarium. I've seen what looked like Ernie lunging at Bert like he was a cricket. Bert spends all of the time I'm around in the back, hiding in a groovy leaf cave he's found. In the morning both are out, roosting in the trees, but as soon as the light goes on, he makes his way back to his hole. I tong feed him, because Ernie will eat every last cricket, he's a beast. (I tong feed Ernie, too, and release a couple crickets into the vivarium so they can hunt too)

I'm now wondering if Ernie is bullying Bert, or is Bert just freaked of me. He seems so high strung, where Ernie is big and burly (he should have hair on his chest and a gold medallion). Then it occurred to me that I don't know: Is there any hard and fast rules about housing two males together?

[flybyferns]

I bought Bert n Ernie together. They were housed in a very small tank in the store. I've now discovered they are both males having seen them both sing.

Browsing pics, I see a lot of them where the frogs are almost cuddling. Crawling on each other, anyways. Not in Froggieville, my vivarium. I've seen what looked like Ernie lunging at Bert like he was a cricket. Bert spends all of the time I'm around in the back, hiding in a groovy leaf cave he's found. In the morning both are out, roosting in the trees, but as soon as the light goes on, he makes his way back to his hole. I tong feed him, because Ernie will eat every last cricket, he's a beast. (I tong feed Ernie, too, and release a couple crickets into the vivarium so they can hunt too)

I'm now wondering if Ernie is bullying Bert, or is Bert just freaked of me. He seems so high strung, where Ernie is big and burly (he should have hair on his chest and a gold medallion). Then it occurred to me that I don't know: Is there any hard and fast rules about housing two males together?

Hi Dee, ( sorry I don't know your name--- I have a name thing)

FF has taught me a tremendous amount about Whites ( a sweet and forgiving frog, with by far the true adorabe 'frog smile' ! ) I have done and enormous amount of reading about them. However, I have not owned one. We read over and over they will greedily devour all available feeder insects and become obese if overfed. The only thing I recall about more than one in an enclosure is they can be cannibalistic. Therefore, they should be the same size and that issues would then be of no concern .

Frogs have different temperaments, if you will. I love your description of Ernie who "is big and burly (he should have hair on his chest and a gold medallion). " Bert is doing , what Bert wants to be doing. Remember though, they do not 'need' company. Your noticing their feeding needs and differences was very important. Ernie is just a hog and more assertive.

Speak to other WTF owners and see what they think I'm sure other will chime in and help out.

The first thought that came to mind when reading your post: What size tank are they in? Your guys must be must growing larger by now? They need space. If I were to house 2 adult whites tree --I would consider an exo 24Hx 36W (18D). When they are small 10 gallons minimum per frog is ok....but as they grow ...they will require additional room....or ....One adult requires an enclosure no smaller than a standard 20-gallon aquarium. A 30-gallon tall for your two?

It's a great investment as they live a long time in captivity.

So that's my 2 bits
Hope it helps
Lynn

[deeishealthy]

My name IS Dee, actually.

Thanks for the reply, I love the input I get here when I have a random thought of "oh no, I wonder if..." and such. SO glad I found this forum.

They are very similar in size, so that's the good news. I have them in an 18x18x24, and they seem quite fine in it. I upgraded from the 12x12x18 that I got for Christmas with a GC for frogs (ya, hows THAT for a Christmas present: Here Mom, you love frogs, here's a new hobby... btw, you will spend hundreds of dollars over the next few weeks after all your research, MERRY CHRISTMAS. Good news is I'm loving every moment of it.). I kept the smaller tank for a hospital tank.

I think I should start measuring my frogs (although Bert might just have a wee froggie heartattack if I come near him with a tape measure), because they don't look much bigger to me. But then I've only had them a week and a half. I have no idea how old they are. (oh yay, I can hear croaking as I type this!!) PetSmart doesn't tell the stores any history on the frogs when they get them in.

Thanks again, Lynn. I look forward to hearing from others as well on how they deal with the different personalities of their frog friends.

[flybyferns]

My name IS Dee, actually.

Thanks for the reply, I love the input I get here when I have a random thought of "oh no, I wonder if..." and such. SO glad I found this forum.

They are very similar in size, so that's the good news. I have them in an 18x18x24, and they seem quite fine in it. I upgraded from the 12x12x18 that I got for Christmas with a GC for frogs (ya, hows THAT for a Christmas present: Here Mom, you love frogs, here's a new hobby... btw, you will spend hundreds of dollars over the next few weeks after all your research, MERRY CHRISTMAS. Good news is I'm loving every moment of it.). I kept the smaller tank for a hospital tank.

I think I should start measuring my frogs (although Bert might just have a wee froggie heartattack if I come near him with a tape measure), because they don't look much bigger to me. But then I've only had them a week and a half. I have no idea how old they are. (oh yay, I can hear croaking as I type this!!) PetSmart doesn't tell the stores any history on the frogs when they get them in.

Thanks again, Lynn. I look forward to hearing from others as well on how they deal with the different personalities of their frog friends.

Your're welcome!

[deranged chipmunk]

Dee, White's are not "social" per se. out of my 6, i have 2 that are together, always. they were 2 of my first 3. the other 4 just do what they do. sometimes they hang out together, sometimes not. while not social, they are not really aggressive towards one another, at least not mine anyway. i've never seen a sign of dominance or anything. they really are solitary creatures in the wild and i think when we keep them captive, they "tolerate" one another. i know they see me as a minor annoyance that must be dealt with if they want their beloved crickets.they don't even bother moving when i maintain their tank. sometimes, i actually have to shoo them away from where i need to trim. they move, and look pi$$ed......LOL (notice, i said i shoo them away, i rarely ever handle my frogs)