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Thread: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

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    Default New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    First of all, I'm new to the forum, so hi everyone! I am also a new (first-time) owner of two WTFs.

    Right now I have a couple of concerns. I have kind of had a less-than-ideal first few days, because I was leaving my parents' home for my college home, but had to get the frogs before I left, so they have just endured a move after coming home with me from the reptile store.

    Both frogs have minor injuries from the reptile store: one has significant nose rub, but it doesn't look infected or anything. I was told that it will heal once he stops rubbing his face on glass. The other also has what looks like a tiny spot with nose rub, but it is much more minor. The second one also has a finger deformity that looks like it could be a birth defect. I will try to post pictures of both of them tomorrow.

    Next, I don't have a perfect setup for them to live in yet. Specifically, I am relying on a sealed tupperware container full of hot water to give them a warm spot and it's a little cold in my room (their tank is around 62-64 degrees F, and it is 1 AM. I am also lacking some decor, but that seems to be less of an issue. They are very dopey and aren't eating much... I'm wondering if they are still a bit shell-shocked from all the transitions (purchased 2 days ago, transported in the car for 5 1/2 hours today), and I feel bad, but it had to be done. I think they also might be a bit cold, but the smaller of the two (the one with the deformed thumb) is very shy and doesn't move much on its own. Only when I handle it does it really start moving.

    If you need to know anything else, just ask. Thanks in advance for the help - I am looking forward to a good long time with these little ones, so I want to learn quickly how to be a better owner!

    -Phil

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Little update and clarification:

    I am just looking for some advice on the ailments they have and suggestions about temperature regulation, as well as experience regarding potential reasons for lots of sleeping.

    Heard some movement while writing that, and it appears both frogs moved. They are seeming to respond well to the warm water container. One snuggled up to it and the other may have hunted a cricket. It ended up on the glass.

    AND I JUST HEARD MY FIRST CROAK! Sounded more like a squawk, but WOW!

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    EJT97
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Welcome to the forum!
    The temperature should be at least 75 degrees and up to about 85. Do you have any substrate? If not use wet paper towels for the moment, have you treated the water? How big is the container (they prefer height to width)? I can't help on the injuries but it sounds like they may be a little stressed (not helped by the 5 1/2 hour trip) Also, what and how much are you feeding them?

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Thanks for the reply! Today will be dedicated to getting them set up right and on their way to happy living!

    So, they are on Eco Earth coconut fiber substrate, which is set up on a false bottom. It's pretty moist I had to take off the glass cover for a mesh one to reduce humidity to around 70%-80%.

    I am using tap water, but I don't know how to treat it...? I was looking up data from the water department to see ion counts, and found the chloride to be less than 100 parts per million. Please tell me if there is something I'm not doing; I'm kind of flying in the dark so far.

    The container is only a 10 gal one right now, it's all I had. It's oriented the wide way, and there is one nice branch there now but they haven't voluntarily climbed on that yet.

    I got feeder crickets from the store, and I know that a couple have been eaten, but the WTFs aren't exactly charging at them... (there are still a couple in their habitat from yesterday around noon. So I would say that between the two frogs, 4-5 crickets have been eaten in the last 2 days or so, which is how long I've had them.

    Also, I bought calcium/vitamin powder... domestic frogs do need that, right?

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    EJT97
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    The water should be either treated tap water or bottled spring water, the substrate is good and the humidity levels seem okay. The tank is big enough for now but as the frog grows older it will need a bigger, taller tank. Also, a hide may be good for them so they don't feel they are being watched all the time. Getting a hide would probably rescue the stress of the frogs.
    For the crickets you should dust them with the calcium/vitamin,powder, not every day but maybe 2-4 times a week. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be eating a lot, maybe someone else could help?
    hope it helps!

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    deeishealthy
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Sounds like you are doing good with what you had. Get yourself some dechlorinator (I bought mine at the pet store in the aquarium section). Chlorine is horrid for frogs, so you must dechlorinate their water. Other than that it sounds like you know you need to increase their heat, you have a good substrate, and you are feeding them well. Congrats!

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    They probably aren't eating too much because of the stress from the move. You can try to cover 3 walls of their tank to help make them feel more secure. You have to get the heat up that's probably why they aren't moving around as much. Like Elliot said, 75 degrees minimum. Maybe a dome light fixture with a low watt red heat light? Because your tank isn't tall you want to be careful that what you use doesn't burn your frogs.
    4.1.0White's Green Tree Frog (OliveR, Shrek, Skitter,Frankie,Storm)
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Hi Gage,
    Welcome to the forum
    I feel the need to just say a couple things before I proceed with any advice, for any other potential new frog owners.
    I know it's not your fault, but it's so important to do your research prior to bringing frogs into your home. A vivarium already set up and environment being monitored. This ensures there are very few problems when you do bring home your new pets.
    With that being said, I think I can help you out.... You obviously care about your new pets and want the best for them, and that is great!

    1. Read the care sheet for whites tree frog owners, if you haven't already
    Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea

    2. Acquire a larger enclosure as soon as you can. Preferbly at least a 18x18x24 inch high one. Petco was having a sale last week on those for 79.99, actually not a bad deal. But also look at craigs list, classifieds, etc. A lot of folks sell theirs for fairly inexpensively. You can also research how to convert a fish aquarium to an upright viv. Sometimes you can find a 30 gallon long aquarium for pretty cheap that can be put on end. You would have to find an conversion kit....
    For 2 white's tree frogs, I highly recomend at least a 29 gallon tank, I know it seems large, but they will thank you for it

    3. As stated above, you need to treat your tap water. It is so important. Any of the de-chlorinators at the pet store in either the fish section or reptile section work fine. Never use untreated tap water, or distilled water. Change water dish to fresh water daily, while they are sleeping during the day.

    4. Also as stated above, cover 3 sides of the tank to help them feel more secure, and get your temps up. At night they can withstand no lower than 65 F, but that is even a bit chilly. I keep my whites at about 74 at night and up to 83 during the day. You can get your temps up with a light during the day, and a heat pad on the side of the tank at night. No light at night, they like the darkness.

    5. White's like to climb, so also provide vines and or plants, sticks, etc. Research how to properly clean them before placing in the tank.

    6. Provide humidity between 60 and 80 percent.

    7. 12 hour day and night cycle, get them on a predictable schedule. They need the routine.

    8. Do not handle them. I never think it's ok to handle frogs, especially when they are acclimating to their new home.
    I actually only handle my white's once per month to give them a check up. I check them for wounds or infections. I make it quick and gentle, then back in their home.

    9. Keep them in a quite area, as mentioned above they are very stressed right now, and will continue to be easily stressed.

    10. Feed only at night, try researching the glass bowl feeding method. It works great and is a wonderful way to monitor their food intake.

    That's all I can think of for now....
    Good luck, they're wonderful 'look, don't touch' animals... They are fascinating and can live for a long time with the proper care.

    (sorry for all the mis-spelled words! I don't have spell check on this computer)
    1.1.0 White's Treefrog
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Okay, just thought of something else...

    You can use non-pain reliever neosporin for the wounds on their noses and other spot. Apply 1-2 times per day while they are sleeping. You can heat the tube in your hand and apply very gently with a q-tip, using a clean one with each application.
    Be sure not to clog the nostrils, and to use only neosporin non pain reliever....

    And as far as the deformed finger, mine has one too!
    He still hunts fine and climbs very well...
    http://www.frogforum.net/members/bol...-pic-0344.html

    (he is pink because of the lighting
    1.1.0 White's Treefrog
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolisnide View Post
    Hi Gage,
    Welcome to the forum
    I feel the need to just say a couple things before I proceed with any advice, for any other potential new frog owners.
    I know it's not your fault, but it's so important to do your research prior to bringing frogs into your home. A vivarium already set up and environment being monitored. This ensures there are very few problems when you do bring home your new pets.
    With that being said, I think I can help you out.... You obviously care about your new pets and want the best for them, and that is great!

    1. Read the care sheet for whites tree frog owners, if you haven't already
    Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea

    2. Acquire a larger enclosure as soon as you can. Preferbly at least a 18x18x24 inch high one. Petco was having a sale last week on those for 79.99, actually not a bad deal. But also look at craigs list, classifieds, etc. A lot of folks sell theirs for fairly inexpensively. You can also research how to convert a fish aquarium to an upright viv. Sometimes you can find a 30 gallon long aquarium for pretty cheap that can be put on end. You would have to find an conversion kit....
    For 2 white's tree frogs, I highly recomend at least a 29 gallon tank, I know it seems large, but they will thank you for it

    3. As stated above, you need to treat your tap water. It is so important. Any of the de-chlorinators at the pet store in either the fish section or reptile section work fine. Never use untreated tap water, or distilled water. Change water dish to fresh water daily, while they are sleeping during the day.

    4. Also as stated above, cover 3 sides of the tank to help them feel more secure, and get your temps up. At night they can withstand no lower than 65 F, but that is even a bit chilly. I keep my whites at about 74 at night and up to 83 during the day. You can get your temps up with a light during the day, and a heat pad on the side of the tank at night. No light at night, they like the darkness.

    5. White's like to climb, so also provide vines and or plants, sticks, etc. Research how to properly clean them before placing in the tank.

    6. Provide humidity between 60 and 80 percent.

    7. 12 hour day and night cycle, get them on a predictable schedule. They need the routine.

    8. Do not handle them. I never think it's ok to handle frogs, especially when they are acclimating to their new home.
    I actually only handle my white's once per month to give them a check up. I check them for wounds or infections. I make it quick and gentle, then back in their home.

    9. Keep them in a quite area, as mentioned above they are very stressed right now, and will continue to be easily stressed.

    10. Feed only at night, try researching the glass bowl feeding method. It works great and is a wonderful way to monitor their food intake.

    That's all I can think of for now....
    Good luck, they're wonderful 'look, don't touch' animals... They are fascinating and can live for a long time with the proper care.

    (sorry for all the mis-spelled words! I don't have spell check on this computer)
    Thanks so much for the detailed response! This thread has provided me with nearly all of the information I have gotten so far. I was never even aware till after getting them that I was putting myself behind the power curve, but of course now it is obvious.

    These are great suggestions, and I will do my utmost to make it all happen TODAY. I covered the tank, placed a heating pad on it, but am going to return to PetSmart for a heat lamp, cause the pad isn't enough, so first priority is a heat lamp and dechlorinator. Also considering a tank upgrade - I saw the $79.99 dealio, and will be getting that soon. Don't really want to put these guys through another move yet.

    Thanks so much for the advice - these little guys and I are very grateful for the support!

    Phil

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by EJT97 View Post
    The water should be either treated tap water or bottled spring water, the substrate is good and the humidity levels seem okay. The tank is big enough for now but as the frog grows older it will need a bigger, taller tank. Also, a hide may be good for them so they don't feel they are being watched all the time. Getting a hide would probably rescue the stress of the frogs.
    For the crickets you should dust them with the calcium/vitamin,powder, not every day but maybe 2-4 times a week. I'm not sure why they wouldn't be eating a lot, maybe someone else could help?
    hope it helps!
    OK great advice. Thanks, Elliot - I will get on that.

    Phil

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    So, at long last and after much driving, I have what I need. My last question is this: my current tank has a false bottom, filled with water to create the necessary humidity. I used tap water for this, so while I am about to replace all that is in the reservoir, the substrate (Eco Earth Coconut fiber) is slightly saturated with the non-dechlorinated water. I do not have enough substrate left over to replace this substrate if I have to toss it. My question is: do I need to toss the already-moist substrate? The water from the tap I used supposedly has less that 100 ppm of chlorine/chloride ions, according to the official water department site online.

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    most likely not. the chlorine will off gas in about 24 hours from the water, it won't permeate the substrate. to keep your substrate less moist, fill the water level to about an inch below the false bottom. egg crate has a tendency to wick moisture up into the substrate, causing a bog condition.

    if you do not have dechlorinator, you can fill bottles of water up and let them sit for about 24-48 hours to allow the chlorine and chloramine to off gas, then it will be safe to use.
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by deranged chipmunk View Post
    most likely not. the chlorine will off gas in about 24 hours from the water, it won't permeate the substrate. to keep your substrate less moist, fill the water level to about an inch below the false bottom. egg crate has a tendency to wick moisture up into the substrate, causing a bog condition.

    if you do not have dechlorinator, you can fill bottles of water up and let them sit for about 24-48 hours to allow the chlorine and chloramine to off gas, then it will be safe to use.

    OK, thanks Bill, done. You mentioned the egg crate - I actually used a different crossing plastic frame to create the false bottom, since I didn't have any egg crate available. What are the advantages of the egg crate over any other plastic trellis? Aside from more support cause mine is a little flimsy...

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    you just answered your own question. stability. flimsy stuff will sag, allowing your substrate to enter the water column, creating a bog. now, this isn't an issue, if you have bog plants, but without bog plants, nasty bacteria can grow in a wet substrate, and possibly get your frogs sick. egg crate also has really nice, big holes, allowing for water to drain from the substrate freely. i could probably go on, but those are the main points.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
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    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
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    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    I gotcha, I suspected that was it. I'm not too satisfied with the whole first terrarium attempt right now. My number one goal is to give the frogs some peace and quiet for a few days, and then I will put together a bigger better, happier home.

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    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Good luck, I know terrariums can be a pain to set up if you don't know how, but if they're put together well you shouldn't have to do much maintenance at all. Or so says this forum.
    Only drawback I can see with my Whites is that they get big. Bigger climbing frog= taller tank= harder to find and more money than most tanks. Also harder to move if you have short arms.

    I'm not satisfied with my terrarium either, but eventually I hope to make one with a water feature rather than just substrate and a bowl I have to change every day. You've always got time to change things around though.

    4-5 crickets in two days sounds like your frogs are getting enough food at least. White's tend to be piggy (so I've read) so maybe not going after more is a sign they're stressed or sick. I don't really know. I am also a newbie.

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    Default New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Thread is nearly two years old. I liked your advice though!

    Litoria
    caerulea 1.1.0 (White's Tree Frog)
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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    D'oh!

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    Default Re: New Owner of Two White's Tree Frogs... Need a Little Help!

    Quote Originally Posted by elly View Post
    D'oh!
    Been there
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
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