Very sick Whites tree frog.

[wildfire]

My Bubba is a very sick frog. I noticed like 6 months ago he started growing these big growths. So I took him to the vet she removed them., and told me he had poor nutrition. so I started feeding my crickets collard greens to boost his diet.I also moved him to a cage that just has a ceramic water dish and a ceramic log for him to hid under.I also had to give him atibiotics in the forearm. Well needless to say he got sick again. She said for some reason he is just not getting his vitamins and not getting over this infection. Yesterday he went back to the vet because he had a blocked gland on his head. She drained the gland. this is what I have to do for him for the next 3 weeks till I see her again.
A riggers bath daily, for 15 mins then I have to apply Ciprofloxacin to the abbcess(glad that she drained) Then I have to give him a vitamin A boost called avibooster 0.05cc daily, then every 3 days I have to give him a shot in his forearm of Fortaz. She also suggested that I give him a pinki mouse once a week to help get him stronger. He has lost 5grams of weight since the last time she seen him in Dec.
I am having a heck of a time thinking about feeding him this live pinki mouse. Does anyone have any suggestions. The vet said live is better then dead. Help this frog is killing me.

[spooky]

Sounds like you're having a rough time with your White's Hope he gets better soon, it's horrible when they're not doing so well. Search youtube for a video of a frog eating a pinkie, there are a couple about

[John]

Firstly, I am not a vet. Has your vet ever treated this frog for internal parasites? Not that this is the problem but more a gauge of your vet.

In the long term history of having this frog, have you been dusting his food with vitamin/mineral supplements, ever? I've never heard of a frog that needed such radical treatment for vitamin deficiencies - calcium deficiency yes, but never vitamin deficiencies. Anyone else?

I strongly suspect your vet is treating your frog according to a reptile rule book, which is likely not appropriate, since amphibians are a completely different class of animals. However, I must once again state that I am not a vet.

Kurt, what do you think (maybe ask Greg if he has heard of anything like this?).

[Kurt]

I could ask Greg what he thinks. Unfortunately, I no longer have his personal e-mail address, as he closed the old because of some problems and has not given me a new one to write to. I can try e-mailing him at the wildlife center.

[wildfire]

Thanks for the reply guys.

John.
I dusted the Crickets Twice a week and feed the Crickets Fluckers Calcium quencher and cricket feed and I would sometimes put in carrots. This is How I started feeding the crickets.
The Vet is an Exotic animal Dr. She is part of the Aemv. And I really don't know if she has tested him for paristies. That's a good question I will have to ask her.


Ok. Maybe a bit more history. I really spent awhile researching frogs and viviariums. I wanted to make a viv first, so I spent about 6months making one. I started with a 40 gallon tall. (Pic below). I understood putting a dumpy in this environment, I would have to clean the top soil often for poop. But the one mistake I made was, I did not change the water. I would add more, when needed. I used purified water only(Reverse osmosis). I had the viv going for 6 months, before I put Bubs in it. The temp was 80-83 in day about 72 at night about 40% humidity. Prior to him living in this viv bubs lived in a 10gallon tank That I had coco fiber in. Bubs started growing this very large growth. So I took him to the vet in Sept.
She informed me water, that is not changed daily is very bad for this kind of frog. Even if it goes threw a filter. She removed the growth and I gave him around of antibiotic shots (Fortaz).
She informed me about crickets, and to feed them collard greens along with the other stuff I was using, to dust them 3 times a month, since bubs is already an older frog. I also moved the frog to a cage with no coco fiber, and very easy to keep clean.
I noticed around dec. bubs started retaining water in his hind legs. So back to the vet for another round of Shots and drained the hind glands.
Now just about a week ago I noticed the gland on his head started to get clogged and very full so I took him back. That's when she said he is not retaining his vitamins . I Got a new bulb a repti glo 10.0 I was using 5.0.and 2.0. I am keeping the temp around 85-87 day 78-80 at night. 50% -60Humidity. Bubs is always a healthy eater. He eats between 10-15 crickets every 3 days. Since he has lost 5 grams since Dec. She wants me to feed him a pinki mouse every week. and up the crickets to 25. I tried a frozen pinki lastnight and he liked it. Next week I will make my husband feed him a live one Because I can't do it. LOL
Also the pic of bubs that small bump on his forearm is the same one that turned into that big growth Very quickly.
Thanks guys for any help or thoughts on all this going on with my frog. It just seems strange to me.

[Kurt]

First reverse osmosis is not very good for your frog, either go with dechlorininated tap water or spring water. Second, your frog is obese and that could be, in part, causing its health problems.

To test for GI parasites the vet will need a fresh fecal sample from your frog, no more than 24 hours old. So unless you gave your vet some poop, your vet didn't test for parasites. If the frogs goes in water, the sample will not test properly, so gather the sample from the substrate.

I am a bit uneasy with the vet's reccomendation to feed pinks so often. I can't tell you the last time my White's got mice. My feeling is that it could make things worse, but I will wait till my vet chimes in on the subject.

[Herpvet]

Hi John,

Just a comment here, with regards to the vitamin deficiencies. In recent years there has been a suggestion in the veterinary literature that most if not all amphibians may be vitamin A deficient (linked to studies done on toads with stunted tongues/squamous metaplasia), and routine supplementation is quite often recommended in any ill amphibian.

Hope this helps,

Bruce.

Firstly, I am not a vet. Has your vet ever treated this frog for internal parasites? Not that this is the problem but more a gauge of your vet.

In the long term history of having this frog, have you been dusting his food with vitamin/mineral supplements, ever? I've never heard of a frog that needed such radical treatment for vitamin deficiencies - calcium deficiency yes, but never vitamin deficiencies. Anyone else?

I strongly suspect your vet is treating your frog according to a reptile rule book, which is likely not appropriate, since amphibians are a completely different class of animals. However, I must once again state that I am not a vet.

Kurt, what do you think (maybe ask Greg if he has heard of anything like this?).

[John]

Yes, the Vitamin A business with frog tongues is quite infamous now in dart frog circles and Kurt has had some experience of it first hand. Personally I have never encountered it and the only frogs I have ever supplemented with vitamins are African Bullfrogs, Pacman frogs and darts, and only the darts ever get it religiously. I think we're all just trying to speculate what could cause a prolapse - I'm thinking it's more likely a physical issue rather than a physiological?