ADF: Lower jaw issues.

[njnolan1]

I'm not sure what's going on but one of my frog's jaw has a tiny white spot right in the middle of the lower jaw. The female's lower jaw looks a bit bumpy. The other male is totally fine looking. Any idea? Should I add a small amount of salt?

They fight when they eat so I'm wondering if it's fighting wounds or something. Plus, someone shed recently too.

[njnolan1]

[njnolan1]

I'm a bit nervous because I had a fish die a few weeks ago from something similar. It started out like a white spot on her mouth and he was dead 24 hours later.

[Miss Blue]

looks like it might be fungal, id say talk to someone at the pet store and look into getting anti-fungal treatment if they also agree. it would be good to isolate him too while being treated in case something happens and to prevent the spread to others.I had an adf die from a fungal infection and it was so hard to watch. I would also suggest a water change in the main tank and treat that water too to be safe. again double check with someone else but thats exactly what it looks like to me, good luck and i hope your little one does ok

[njnolan1]

looks like it might be fungal, id say talk to someone at the pet store and look into getting anti-fungal treatment if they also agree. it would be good to isolate him too while being treated in case something happens and to prevent the spread to others.I had an adf die from a fungal infection and it was so hard to watch. I would also suggest a water change in the main tank and treat that water too to be safe. again double check with someone else but thats exactly what it looks like to me, good luck and i hope your little one does ok

Thanks! Not sure if it's fungal. It hasn't changed at all in the past couple of days. I'm not sure what medicine to use either as I know some fungal treatments are terrible for them. I'll have to do more research.

Thanks! Sorry about your little adf :/

[Felis]

Hi,

that doesn´t look fungal to me. How do you keep the frogs (tank size, filtration, water quality, temp, feeding regime etc.)? Are there any changes in behaviour? Could be normal pigmentation.

[njnolan1]

Hi,

that doesn´t look fungal to me. How do you keep the frogs (tank size, filtration, water quality, temp, feeding regime etc.)? Are there any changes in behaviour? Could be normal pigmentation.

Seeing how it hasn't progressed at all in the past few days I'm thinking it has to do with rubbing its face on the plastic. They were going nuts for a week and I couldn't figure it out. Until I realized they calm right down when I turn the over head lights off.

I was using salt too but I've read that will kill plants so I stopped with salt. I've added melafix because it's supposed to help with injuries, which is what I've concluded this to be (for now, unless it regresses to something worse) but who knows if it actually does anything.

The tank is small, I got them as a gift about a year ago in a medium KK. They did totally fine in there. I cleaned the water once a week. In my ignorance I decided to add fish too. Well, the fish don't do as well with fluctuating water conditions so I bought a 2.5 gallon betta bow. It has live plants (3 anubias nana, one moss ball) and a prefilter. No heater as of right now. I live in NC and the temperature in the water hasn't dropped below 72, it's usually around 74. In the warmer months (which are quickly approaching) the temperature is close to 78-80 F. I will get a heater for next winter but I've had trouble finding one with a thermostat for such a small tank. I do want to try Marina's small heater though. It's preset to 78.

I feed them usually every third day unless they look skinny then I'll do it every other day. I feed them Hikari brine shrimp and blood worms. I don't use pellets because they fall apart, the frogs barely eat any of it and then the water gets disgusting. With the exception of the last water test the water has been testing wonderfully. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and <10 nitrates. I use a combination of prime and stress zyme for weekly 20% water changes. The last test showed a small amount of ammonia but I figured out what I was doing wrong. Over feeding the little fish I have in there. I assumed the frogs were eating the leftover food but when I did a gravel vac (which I do every water change) there was a ton of debri in the gravel. Yes, I have fish in there too. Three Endler guppies. Three frogs and three endler guppies in a 2.5 gallon tank. May God strike me down for animal cruelty... (that's for you pet care hero's out there :P ).

I do plan on upgrading eventually but I don't have the money or room right now for a larger tank. Plus I'm afraid the move may end up killing my fish do to the stress. They're happy as clams. I didn't know livebearers school but these guys are almost always together!

Thanks!

[Felis]

Hi,

ok, most of the products you´re using aren´t available in Europe, so I don´t have own experiences. Generally, it´s always better to first fix the environmental conditions than to add any "cures" to the water. Melafix is based on tea tree oil, isn´t it? I think that might rather irritate the frogs´skin than to do anything good. The test results are fine as long as you get the ammonia problem under control (both ammonia and nitrites are also highly toxic to frogs, so you aim for zero readings).
Hymenochirus is a tropical genus, so adding a small heater to prevent temperature swings is a good idea. A small sponge filter (low current) will help to maintain a good water quality. Changing about 25% of the water weekly is a good practice, altough in very small tanks, bigger changes might be necessary.
As for the food: wet frozen or live food is preferable over dry foods. You could try to offer more variety as well, eg black mosquito larvae, glassworms, artemia, tubifex, chopped earthworms (very healthy!), Daphnia, Cyclops). Every two or three days is fine as long as the frogs don´t get skinny (as you already know).
ADFs do best in species-only tanks, but if you´re able to upgrade the tank (at least 5 gallons, better 10), the frogs probably will get along with the Endlers as long as they get enough food.
You seem to be very concerned about your pets, so don´t blame yourself. I have to admit that it´s strange for me to read about vertebrates being kept in tanks that small (would be forbidden in Germany), but it seems to be really hard to distinguish "good" from "bad" information on tank size and maintainance in America (and I don´t want to offend someone).

Good luck,
Julia

[Miss Blue]

if it hasnt changed in the last few days then youre right, it prob isnt fungal,when my little guy succummed to his agressive fungal infection it was pretty obvious and there was definite progression over time. he may have just injured himself especially if the tank is small, just my opinion but yes def do your research and i would even ask someone at a pet store which i have done in the past as they may also have some input. regardless i wish you luck!

[njnolan1]

Thanks! I really wish I could upgrade to a bigger tank.

[njnolan1]

Thanks for the help and tips. So what's the minimum tank size in Germany for fish or frogs?

[mpmistr]

I always advise friends who get fish tanks to always start with 20 gallons minimum or don't bother. There's just very very few species that can thrive in anything less. I don't get why people get fish bowls and 2.5 gallon tanks they're just not adequate for any species in the hobby...

[Gnag the nameless]

Agreed, I never found any use for my 2.5 gallon, so I just sold it for 5$. The only thing you could keep in one is snails and tiny shrimp, but even then, it would be too small.

[njnolan1]

Don't knock 2.5 gallon tanks just yet. You can easily keep some live plants, a snail and a dozen cherry shrimp in there. Or a single betta with a snail and live plants.

2 Dwarf frogs would be completely fine in a 2.5 gallon tank. Or even 3 Endler's (mine seem very happy). The problem I have is I have 3 frogs and 3 fish in the tank. I over did it.

I think the frogs are bored or it's just the light. They were fine for almost a year. I had them in a 2 gallon with no filter and they seemed very happy. Mating, eating and just chilling out. I've done many changes in the new tank and even the old one for months and I think they liked the changing around. I haven't changed anything in the tank in months. Maybe I should move things around a bit until I can upgrade to a 5 gallon.

[mpmistr]

Inverts like small shrimp have a small bio load, so they may do fine in a small tank like that.

Also keep in mind that ADF are a prey species, they often 'put on a good face' even when they are not doing terribly well. I think your frogs would be happier in a larger tank. Frogs (as just about every other animal) do not become bored.

I don't think a betta deserve to be kept in a 2.5 gallon either, they can survive but they will do much better in a larger tank, and live much longer.

Just how I feel though, how you keep them is up to you. I just dislike small tanks like that, I don't find them useful for 99% of the species you keep in aquariums.

[njnolan1]

Any advice on how to safely start a new tank using everything from the old tank. I was thinking that if I just move everything over to a 5 gallon tank all the nasty stuff in the gravel, that that hasn't been vacced up, will cloud the water and cause a spike in ammonia? I would add 2.5 gallons of new water too but still. Probably 5 more pounds of gravel as well and eventually more live plants.

[mpmistr]

I would place the frogs into a critter carrier with fresh, clean water (or old tank water) and move everything to the new tank. Do you have a filter? If so move that for sure. Once it's moved let it sit for an hour or so then add back in the frogs. The beneficial bacteria from your frogs should take over and all will be well.

I would avoid gravel entirely. Perhaps try smooth silica sand? It's much easier to clean, the only easier to clean method is glass-bottom, but I like sand personally. Looks more natural.

[njnolan1]

Frogs (as just about every other animal) do not become bored.

I don't think a betta deserve to be kept in a 2.5 gallon either, they can survive but they will do much better in a larger tank, and live much longer.

I will have to respectfully disagree about these statements. Most animals will become "bored" if their instinctual needs aren't met. Obviously this will vary depending on the complexity of the animals psyche. If frogs did not become bored then why would they fair better in a larger tank if I'm keeping the water clean (there was a small spike after months of perfect water because of my over feeding)?

I think a 2.5 gallon tank is perfectly adequate for a betta as long as the water is kept clean. Not too difficult if there's no overfeeding and regular water changes are done. Live plants and places to hide I think are great too!

What they don't deserve is being kept in half gallon bowls or little cups at the pet store. That's just terrible.

But that's the thing about the pet keeping hobby. It's very opinionated as many animals are able to adapt to differing methods as long as their basic needs are met.

[njnolan1]

I would place the frogs into a critter carrier with fresh, clean water (or old tank water) and move everything to the new tank. Do you have a filter? If so move that for sure. Once it's moved let it sit for an hour or so then add back in the frogs. The beneficial bacteria from your frogs should take over and all will be well.

I would avoid gravel entirely. Perhaps try smooth silica sand? It's much easier to clean, the only easier to clean method is glass-bottom, but I like sand personally. Looks more natural.

Thanks!

I would probably just buy the 5 gallon betta bow which will have its own filter. Why should I avoid gravel? I have no trouble cleaning it as I just gravel vac out the debris. I also thought gravel was an excellent way to provide surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow on. In fact, my tank's water finally cycled after I added gravel. Months I spent struggling with water conditions (bare bottom at the time) but a week after adding gravel the readings were perfect! I rinse out all the tiny pieces that might get stuck in their mouths too. Never used sand but have read good things and bad things. They don't eat the sand while digging through for food? I've read they could become impacted if they eat too much sand but who knows. There's so many different opinions on this stuff and very little proof. Most of it is just hear say.

Thanks again for your tips!

[njnolan1]

I hope I didn't sound rude at all! I didn't mean to be if I did