HELP ASAP! Pippin isn't moving!

[Rae]

Ok I have 4 Grey Tree Frogs and our newest and smallest male Pippin, a few days ago seemed reluctant to eat and was always down at the bottom of the enclosure. When I moved him he would move away but not jump. he would not eat last night at all and tonight I came home and found him laying in the moss and almost thought he was dead.

My husband because I was too nervous went to see him... he is breathing but cant seem to move his back legs. He is now in quarantine in a large cricket keeper so I can watch him. he looks bloated like he gets before he needs to shed and his legs are out behind him. I think he's dying and I don't know why. I am keeping him misted. he does not appear to have impaction or red leg that is all I know.

I have no Herp vets anywhere near my and the online vet I see posted here cant ship meds to Canada. What could cause this. he almost seems paralyzed.....

[Rae]

Ok hes moving around, rather dragging himself. He clearly has not control of his back legs T_T. He still looks bloated =(. I have him in a shallow honey bath though I have no pedialyte... only honey and water atm.

[Lija]

Check for any skin damages. also how do you feeding him?

I would continue with warm soaks, hope he'll pull it through, but that all awfully sounds similar to what I had not long ago, hope it is not.

[Rae]

Check for any skin damages. also how do you feeding him?

I would continue with warm soaks, hope he'll pull it through, but that all awfully sounds similar to what I had not long ago, hope it is not.

What was wrong with your frog????

I feed him gut loaded crickets with calcium, by hand or tongs so I no how much he eats... I dont know if he has pooped recently as he is housed with 3 other grey tree frogs until quarantine tonight. And they have 3 Exo Terra 2.0 UVB bulbs 2 are relatively new so the UVB should be good.... I can't get him too eat again tonight =(

[Rae]

Bump!

Hes still alive hasn't moved since him honey bath last night and breathing might be slower than usual... think hes sleeping...

[Lija]

What was wrong with your frog????

mycobacteriosis both didn't make it, both were WC. it is like tuberculosis for humans, but looks differently, that is why I asked if Pippin has any lesions or anything else on a skin.

good sign that he pulled it through the night, i would soak him some more today, but in pedialyte with honey this time. Keeping my fingers crossed for him.

[Rae]

Out of 70 views I get 1 person commenting T_T... where's Grif and Uncle Chester and Heatherannne and all the other saviors of this forum T_T?

[Rae]

mycobacteriosis both didn't make it, both were WC. it is like tuberculosis for humans, but looks differently, that is why I asked if Pippin has any lesions or anything else on a skin.

good sign that he pulled it through the night, i would soak him some more today, but in pedialyte with honey this time. Keeping my fingers crossed for him.

No leasions, just bloated and shinny like he needs to shed and darker than usual but he often looks darker at night...

[HerpDerp]

I feed him gut loaded crickets with calcium, by hand or tongs so I no how much he eats... I dont know if he has pooped recently as he is housed with 3 other grey tree frogs until quarantine tonight. And they have 3 Exo Terra 2.0 UVB bulbs 2 are relatively new so the UVB should be good.... I can't get him too eat again tonight =(

Sorry more people aren't commenting on this . I think it's just a tough call because it sounds so vague and general. It could be anything really. You should try posting a picture of the frog showing the condition of the skin etc. Now by "gut loaded with calcium" do you mean you gut load them with calcium rich food and that's it or do you regularly dust the crickets with calcium and vitamin supplements? If you don't do this then it could be some sort of deficiency. That's all I can think of. You may also want to try contacting Dr. Frye. I believe his contact info is posted in the articles section of this forum. I hope your frog gets better soon!

[Lija]

how is he now? any better? Michelle has good point - do you dust crickets and how?

What you can do for vet though is to contact dr. frye, if you need any meds you can just contact any clinic near by, explain what do you need and get from them.

where in Ontario do you live, I'm pretty sure there are some very good herp vets around there. unfortunately they might be off for holidays.

[Rae]

The yes I gut load and dust my crickets.

Dr Frye doesn't ship to Canada

Closest herp to me that I have found is over an hour away and I don't drive on the highways that I would have to take there.

This will be night 3 without eating. He has not moved at all since last night and I have given him 2 baths, one last night and one this afternoon.

Hard to tell if he is even still alive =( I saw him blink around 5pm

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm sorry Rae. I don't come to the Tree Frog Forum very often.

Is there any skin discoloration? Blisters or cysts? Bloating can be caused by Toxicosis(Toxing Out Syndrome), over feeding, kidney failure, edema, and Liver cancer.

Paralysis can also be caused by many things including Chytrid.

Answer these questions and repost the answers here. http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...enclosure.html

[killerecho]

Rae, sorry about your frog. This may come too late, but losing control of the back legs could be a sign of metabolic bone disease/lack of calcium. I know you dust and gut load your crickets but there's any number of variables affecting how much of a given nutrient is actually absorbed by an individual frog. I think someone already mentioned the pedialyte/honey bath. You could also mix that solution with some of that calcium supplement you use to dust your crickets. Exoterra has a liquid electrolyte and D3 supplement sold here (first item). I've never used it though, but it seems like it could be helpful for treating calcium problems.

The bloating could be due to impaction. Is there any risk of that in their enclosure? Finally, there's a chance all of this is caused by a disease or infection, and if so, there may be no alternative but to seek help from a vet - though you've already indicated that this is a problem. A last resort might be antibiotics like metronidazole or duramycin, but you need to find a suitable concentration and dosage. I may be able to help with the research, if it comes to that.

[Heatheranne]

Hi sweetie! Sorry, I often miss posts when I'm at work (12 hr shifts).

He needs electrolyte replacements if he's not eating. Use plain pedialyte 1 part to 10 parts dechlorinated luke warm water with 2 drops of honey in it. Soak him for 20 minutes in the mix with the water no deeper than his belly, less than his chin. Prepare a second plain dechlorinated water bath for a 15 minute soak to rinse the residue off of him.

Any idea of how long he hasn't eaten for?

I'm not sure what is ailing him. If you use the calcium daily, that's it's unlikely that its hypocalcemia. What brand of calcium do you use? Are any of the others sick?

Again, sorry for the delay .

[flybyferns]

Brian and Heather have given you great advice.
It sure sounds like hypoclacemia. ( low calcium levels in the body). Heather is right.... If you have been dusting, however, this is unlikely?

If you have not, getting calcium into him is imperative. Weight him and purchase liquid calcium Brian put in the previous link, or get it ( with instructions )from a vet. Like Heather, I'm wondering as well, what brand of calcium are you using, how has it been stored, and how old is it?

Sorry he is sick The pedi soaks will help! Keep at it , we hope he truns the corner.
Lynn

[UncleChester]

Hi Rae,

Sorry to hear about Pippins troubles. I don't really have much to add, but was there any chance he was trying to hibernate (and still is)? Cooler temperatures, less light, and lower humidity can kick this off, and it's possible to have one trying to hibernate before the others do. They can be pretty uncoordinated if woken early from this.

There are a few vets in Toronto claiming experience in exotic pets that you've probably already found. You can get down there without hitting a 400 series highway if you stick to less major roads but it would probably add at least an hour each way. This might still be worth it

Contacting Dr Frye might still be a good idea for advice.

Good luck, and I hope Pippin improves.

[GrifTheGreat]

Everyone has come up with very possible ailements that could be affecting you little guy. Uncle Chester has mentioned one I didn't think of and that is the frog trying to brumate. He is definitely right that waking them early can cause all kinds of problems. They can even go into shock and pass away, but that is near instant. Warm baths would bring him out of Brumation/hybernation. Especially electrolyte soaks.

One serious issue with hybernation is that if they try to do so on a full stomach the food will not digest due to a very slow metabolism and begin to rot in his gut causing him to become septic. Bloating is also caused by this sort of infection. Even so for something this bad a Vet is needed. I wish there was more help I could provide from here, but its difficult when you cannot see with your own eyes how the frog is behaving and the symptoms of what is ailing him.

Pleases keep us posted. I hope that he pulls through.

[Rae]

Pippin is gone T_T He wasn't moving, breathing, blinking nothing this morning. his stomach looked off in colour redish under the skin from inside that wasn't there last night.

My husband had first said it was time to flush (not sure if he was joking hard to tell with him) but I convinced him to dig a hole in the front garden for him under a bush. He wont be disturbed there as we don't plant anything, there is only a bush there. I laid him to rest outside about 20 min ago.

Thank you for all the advise anyways I have sanitized the large enclosure with vinegar/water solution where Frodo, Sam and Merry are. Hopefully we moved Pippin out into quarantine quick enough not to cause another loss.

[Heatheranne]

I'm so sorry . I'm glad he is at peace.

Vinegar should do the trick. Watch them closely.

[Lija]

so sorry hear ((((