Dubia colony questions

[JeffreH]

You are absolutely correct about the gutloading - while I think providing a quality diet throughout the insect's life may increase overall nutrional benefits slightly, its probably insignificant and the real show stopper is the gut contents. Insects have very specific needs and their body doesn't store things like calcium very readily, hence why gutloading prior to feeding and dusting is so important. I highly doubt a high quality dog food vs. a poor quality food will make that much of a difference in cockroach mortality and reproductive fitness. In fact, I know of fellow hobbyists who have kept dozens of species for years on a diet of only dog food and apples... so anything else you throw in there is really just benefitting your herps with a nutrional boost. This is why I think using a variety of items and quality feed is important, as the micro/macronutrients found in plant matter can really only be obtained from the insects that a frog consumes.

As for the Red Runners - It sounds like you've got a pretty solid gameplan. I've always wanted to separate ooths and rear them in the manner you are suggesting, but never really had the time or need. It would certainly increase the productively and make things far more organized...especially for sorting as you've noted.

The main key for Red Runner ooths is to prevent them from drying out. To accomplish this, I place a 1-2" layer of peat moss and coir (Eco-Earth) on the bottom of the bin...making this one of the only feeder species I use substrate for. The substrate holds moisture better and prevents the near direct contact with the heating element I use under the bottom of the bin (Flexwatt Heat Tape). I also keep a constant and heft supply of water crystals available at all times in the bin, which helps to promote some extra humidity. I still get a few ooths here and there that dry out using this method, but produce so many tiny nymphs it isn't worth it to separate them out for some TLC.... but I primarily feed adult and large nymph lats.

If I were you trying the separation method with jars - I would run the bottom of the bin bare as you would for B. dubia. Stack egg flats or drink carriers vertically so all ooths and frass fall to the bottom, and every couple of days check in and remove any new ooths you see. This can easily be accomplished by simply tilting the bin, as the ooths will just roll off to the side of interest. Then, set up a jar with some moist coir/peat moss/soil of choice that is slightly damp, but not dripping or soaking wet when squeezed. The ooths should be just fine laying right on top of the soil, but the main purpose of the substrate is to create a slightly humid environment in the jar. For this reason, you may opt to place something dry between the substrate and ooths as a barrier just in case too much direct moisture contact has a negative effect as well (again, I've not actually employed this method, just speculating). The major pitfall will be the need for heat for the ooths as well...so you may either want to A) Set up a new baby bin or heat the incubation jars specifically or B) Place an incubation jar inside of the main roach colony bin in such a way that other roaches cannot access it. The jar should be ventilated, but probably not completely open since we want to keep the substrate from drying out too rapidly.

If you ever cultured crickets - think of the lateralis ooths like cricket eggs. They need some heat, and they can't be kept too dry. On the flip side, too much moisture or sitting in a saturated soil may also prove fatal to the egg case. You'll just need to play around with finding a happy median. I promise it isn't rocket science though ; )

Let me know if you'd like me to elaborate on anything further!

[fish4all]

What is the absolute low end to have either species breed, runners and Dubia? At what temp do they die both high and low?

The heat source, is it meant to keep the entire colony at 85-90 or just the egg crates where they stay? Can the food and water area be slightly cooler or will the heat mat/tape keep the whole bin pretty much the same temp?

What temperature do you keep you colonies Jeff? And how many adult runners or Dubia would I need to have approximately 400-500 nymphs a month to feed to my frogs? Feeding supplemented with flies, wood lice and other stuff. I have tried to calculate this and have come up with 25 female Dubia and 20 female runners with extras from these numbers if they are breeding properly.

Getting closer, hopefully I will have it all in hand before getting the little buggers.

I am actually thinking of 2 bins with either species, adults breeding in one and nymphs growing or hatching in the other. Should be plenty enough room in two 10 gallon bins for more than enough to feed my little chorus frogs. And a backup is always a good idea. Fruit flies taught me that lesson. That and two 10 gallon bins lets me put the bins in a larger tote so that there are no escapees so the Mrs. doesn't freak out on me.

[unkempt1]

I wanna help too! Sorry, don't mean to butt in but I enjoy talking about roaches just as much as Jeff does.

What is the absolute low end to have either species breed, runners and Dubia? At what temp do they die both high and low?

I can only speak for Dubia. I'd keep it around 90-95 to guarantee consistent breeding, but they can breed more slowly in the 85 degree range. They won't start dying until you get below the 45 degree range, but are pretty sluggish and probably don't eat very well at temps that low.

The heat source, is it meant to keep the entire colony at 85-90 or just the egg crates where they stay? Can the food and water area be slightly cooler or will the heat mat/tape keep the whole bin pretty much the same temp?

You should still have a cool side, although technically if they get too warm you we see them chilling out at the tops of the crates, which is fine. My setup has the food/water on the cool side, which is what I recommend. Warm side should be the crate side.

What temperature do you keep you colonies Jeff? And how many adult runners or Dubia would I need to have approximately 400-500 nymphs a month to feed to my frogs?

i hope I can answer too. I keep mine between 90-95, usually closer to 90 degrees. I've heard that temps above 95 degrees can kill adult males, but haven't personally experienced this because my heat pad doesn't get that hot. Growth-wise, each female will give birth to 20-30 babies each month.

I would recommend the 2-bin setup, it's what I use. That way you can feed your breeders higher protein stuff, and your feeders the stuff your frog would benefit from. I have a bearded dragon and pacman, so I feed my feeders collard/mustard/turnip greens, prickly pears, and very rarely fruits like apples and mangos. I feed my breeder colony a roach chow I make myself that includes dog food and plant proteins. I recommend feeding them more than just fruits and veggies, otherwise the males will kill each other. I have experienced this with my colony when I just gave them fruits/veggies when I had only one bin and fed directly from my colony. Having two bins also has the advantage of not needing to bother your feeders too often, which believe me the less you mess with them the more effectively they will grow.

[JeffreH]

Yay for Roach enthusiasts! = )

What temperature do you keep you colonies Jeff? And how many adult runners or Dubia would I need to have approximately 400-500 nymphs a month to feed to my frogs? Feeding supplemented with flies, wood lice and other stuff. I have tried to calculate this and have come up with 25 female Dubia and 20 female runners with extras from these numbers if they are breeding properly.

You calculations are correct. As unkempt said, you can expect about 20 nymphs per month from each adult female dubia and closer to 25-30 per month per female lateralis. These are pretty conservative values, and in optimal conditions you may see slightly more productivity (especially from the lats).

The flaw to this calculation and biggest issue for most new roach keepers is not accounting for nymphs that need to be fed and for nymphs that need to be held back to reach adulthood in order to replace current breeders. Thankfully, females will live and reproduce for many months after reaching maturity...upwards to a year or more. But maturity can take several months for either species... and factoring in "feeder size nymphs" is also important. For example, while you may produce 500 nymphs monthly from 25 females, they will all be newborn nymphs that you may only be able to feed a limited amount of herps until they gain some size. I would personally wait a couple of months AFTER you have your adult females so that a nice mix of nymphs is available as replacements to the colony and as feeders. You can never have too many roaches, and having too large a colony is always better than having too few and having to backtrack. I always shot for 1.5x-2x the recommended females when starting my colonies to err in the side of caution.

Cockroaches will thermoregulate much like a reptile or amphibian as unkempt suggested - I personally keep my heat tape under the entire bin and allow for an upwards gradient with egg flats. The roaches will travel toward the bottom for warmth and to the top to cool down. This is probably the most practical heating method for a large quantity of roaches in a single bin as you can completely pack the bin with egg flats. More egg flats = more surface area. More surface area means larger population per bin. The added surface area s particularly important for species who rather dislike crowding (i.e. Eublaberus sp.)

I have all of my bins set so that the inside bottom surface of the bin reads ~90. This is true for most of my feeder species, B. dubia and the lateralis included. Insect's function purely on enzyme kinetics driven by the environment....warmer temps mean faster growth to a certain point, but too much heat can have adverse effects. Given their natural range, I would imagine B. dubia would have an optimal temperature range of about 85-90 degrees F... but this is purely speculation from average temperatures in the neotropics where they reside in nature.

[fish4all]

Unkept, all advice is wanted for me. The more people that say it the more that I believe it when they back each other up. That and sometimes something will not work for me that will for others and having options to try is always a good thing. Fruit flies taught me this, adding active yeast crashed my cultures after just 2 weeks. I use brewers yeast now and have never had more production form longer lasting cultures.

I figure that my frogs will eat the roaches up to about 3/4 inch at most. Once a crickets gets an ovipositor longer than about 1/8 inch they are pretty much too big for all except my largest frog. I think the hard part may be finding what to do with the extra adults when I don't feed off enough at a small enough size. Good problem to have I would think.

I will see how big the heat pad is and decide how I will try and heat the bins. Might leave a cool side for food and water with crates on the heated side in both.

What is the smallest bin you would say would work for my needs? I have two 24 quart ones I was thinking of using. Really straight up ad down walls with good flat lids and easy to modify for mesh. I can put them in a larger bin to keep them contained. Do you think that a second bin will ruin a temperature gradient and make the entire smaller bins an equal temperature or is this unlikely?

[unkempt1]

Those should work fine. I think I use a 10 gallon sterilite tub and it works no problem. You still will want to put duct tape around the sides, because the smaller nymphs will climb the walls. Another thing: are the walls see-through or a solid color?

Do you think that a second bin will ruin a temperature gradient and make the entire smaller bins an equal temperature or is this unlikely?

I think I understand the question. Do you mean do you think the heating pad will spread the temps out too far? I don't think it will, but I will say that the heat transfer from the pad to the tub is pretty terrible.

[fish4all]

The tubs are clear, I may try using them and putting them in the dark or a solid bin or finding some the same size or there about. I could tape them up to make them opaque or do something like that.

I was thinking the 2 smaller bins in a large one would make the temperature equal throughout the smaller ones but that doesn't like it would be a problem.

As for Duct tape, I would think that would make it easier, don't I need a clear slick tape around the rim to prevent them climbing too high? Or is there a clear slick duct tape out there?