WTF diet and breeding Dubia roaches

[deranged chipmunk]

Jeff, out of curiosity, do you think dubia's would feed and be sustained on the leaves that fall off live plants? You did mention they are very good at decomposing. Am i wrong in thinking that dead leaves would be more like their natural diet? I would even consider tossing trimmings in as well.

[JeffreH]

Good question Bill

The problem with leaves is the secondary metabolites that may exist... I'm certainly not qualified to know what kinds of chemicals reside in each species of plant, but some plants have pretty potent defenses.

Plants all over the world have coevolved with other organisms and use allelochemicals to combat being preyed upon by herbivores. Secondary metabolites include things like alkaloids, tannins, cardiac glyocoside residues, and many other chemicals. Alkaloids are responsible for things like nicotene in tobacco and THC in hemp, for example. Most herbivores need to become specialized in order to feed on plants for a few reasons... first is the ability to neutralize or combat these chemical defenses, and second is often the ability to metabolize cellulose. This is why you see Monarch butterfly larvae feeding on things like milkweed that contains latex-like sap, alkaloids, and cardiac glycosides. While this plant will completely kill the vast majority of insects that feed upon it, the monarch larvae has coevolved in such a way that it can not only feed on the plant, but also utilize the chemical properties as a biological defense mechanism against predation.

An interesting example of what leaves in plants may secretly hold - I recall a study that discussed the leaf feeding preferences of a certain species of Colobus monkey. Despite a plethora of some 120 species of plant, the monkeys would only feed on 3 species.

So the real question is: what species of plant do you wish to feed to your cockroaches? While they are excellent decomposers, the quality of the food being offered is still important and they have obvious preferences. I'd wager most roaches are primary decomposers that are first to arrive on the scene - breaking organic matter to smaller pieces for things like springtails, isopods, mites, earthworms, bacteria etc and will be more selective about feeding as a result. Oak leaves for example are perfectly safe to feed and I always offer my roaches fallen oak leaves as something to munch as detritus and substrate. Plants in certain families like Solanacea however should certainly be avoided due to the family's notorious history of containing toxic metabolites.

If feeding your cockroaches to a pet amphibian or reptile, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and only feed items that are certainly safe...common salad greens, fruits, vegetables, and grains. If you are trying to create as natural an environment as possible for the cockroach itself, adding fallen leaves would certainly be useful so long as the leaves are not otehrwise toxic. I've never experimented with anything other than Oak - but I'm sure they would be capable of eating a wide variety of common temperate leaves. Regardless - most species of cockroach are capable of thriving under a wide variety of conditions. Whether one provides a bin with leaves, soil, bark and other natural things or simply an empty bin with egg flats... as long as basic needs are met roaches will thrive and breed ; )

[deranged chipmunk]

Jeff, first off, allow me to thank you for the excellent reply. I had not thought about secondary metabolites. I'm planning on picking up a small starter colony at my next local reptile show in jan, but would rather be well prepared in advance. When i saw you mention decomposition and leaf litter, it got me thinking about feeding what i would normally throw in my compost bin. I guess i assumed that since most roaches are scavengers, that they would have some immunity towards alkaloids and such. That is why we ask questions, right?

As you said, i do err on the side of caution when it comes to my critters, so i will stick with tried and true methods for my roachie friends. no need to push the envelope on this one....lol

Btw, awesome quote in your sig.....i've been a huge D.M.B. fan since day one.

[JeffreH]

No problem Bill, happy to help! Sending you a friend request by the way - gotta share the love with fellow DMB fans = )

I'm sure roaches have some unique adaptations being decomposers that allow them to handle a wide variety of food types, but I'm simply too unfamiliar with the effects of compounds in certain plants on them to give a clearcut answer. Its a great question and one that would require some independent research in order to determine what, if anything, each species is more sensitive too. For example, the rare and beautiful giant burrowing "rhino" cockroach of Australia (Macropanesthia rhinocerus) is very delicate in captivity and requires specialized care. They feed on Eucalyptus leaves in their natural range primarily and act as important decomposers, but in captivity species of Eucalyptus in the states used for ornamental purposes can be toxic to them. I've not well enough versed on my rhino roach care to be 100% certain about this, but I recall reading something (perhaps by Orin McMonigle?) that suggested they fared much better in captivity when Oak leaves were given instead on Eucalyptus. Interesting that even plant species in the same genus can vary enough to be hazardous to those that feed on them. For these reasons: I'm sure many cockroaches, even individual species, can handle certain compounds in certain plants better than others... but I am too unfamiliar the vast majority that may contain toxic chemicals to know for sure... so my roaches get all scrap salad items that are starting to turn in the house and some supplemental diet options to benefit the herps = )

Heck, some cockroaches, including termites (a social cockroach) have found a way to metabolize cellulose by utilizing symbiotic bacteria and protozoans in the gut. The world is an amazing place! I could geek out about this stuff all day.

[deranged chipmunk]

yeah man, i remember hearing Ants Marching on the radio, went out and bought the cd, got home, heard Jimi Thing and i was hooked!!!LOL

i'll be honest with you, if you did know all that info, i would have been astonished. LOL you are right, it amazes me how within the same species, plants can be so diverse. the more i research for builds, the more i find fascinating. i think i read somewhere the same issue with eucalyptus affects koala bears as well. but that was very, very long ago....lol

i am going to have do so some research into **** roaches, yeah, there's a fun subject my wife would say...lol she already gives me nasty looks when i talk about breeding roaches...lol

if you ever want to geek out about stuff, i'm always a pm away. i hate clogging threads as well. besides, i have a thirst for knowledge that just can't seem to be quenched....LOL

p.s. i did not know that termites were in the cockroach family. i always assumed that because they tunneled and were social, that they were a distant relative of ants. see? i learned another new thing today!! LOL