WTF diet and breeding Dubia roaches

[HerpDerp]

The protein is more for the roaches health than the frog's health. I believe it encourages breeding? Roaches also like grains and sweet cereals. I feed mine grapenuts cereal and they really seem to like that.

[JeffreH]

Good question about the protein - as far as I know from experience in using high protein foods and from talking to few roach hobbyists, the protein is probably an exaggerated need of cockroaches. In nature, most cockroaches are pretty efficient decomposers and likely feed more heavily on carbon-rich organic matter. Excessive protein in the diet may lead to larger overall sized roaches, but their actual fitness and morbidity with exposure to abnormally high protein may be at stake as a result.

The true need seems to be moisture/hydration. Most high protein food items like dog kibble contains substantially more moisture and protein than say, chicken feed, that will be significantly drier. While it doesn't appear so to us, on the mico-level that insects live in a difference in moisture content by only a few %'s can be dramatic. Many of the species we culture as food for our herps are tropical species, afterall. I think many hobbyists have neglected to consider moisture content in food as a more viable preference option that the protein content. I've raised cultures of several species on an almost exclusively fruit and veggie/leaf diet with no ill effects. I do want to emphaize the need for moisture in the DIET...not in the enclosure. Excessive moisture in the bin can lead to bacteria and mold growth.


Roaches are pretty generalistic in their feeding preferences. For whatever reason, there is speculation that oranges increase reproduction. I've never noticed any staggering change to my colonies in offering oranges and any other single food item, but it never hurts to try. As long as they are given some dry grain base diet and are provided with plenty of hydration (water crystals, fruit, greens, salad items, etc) and adequate space and heat, they will thrive and breed without much effort. In order to make them best for your frog - feed quality dry baby cereals, cat or dog kibble, and/or fish food as a dry grain base and offer fruit and salad items a couple of times a week. This is usually adequate to keep the roaches thriving and reproducing while offering an ideal gutload for your frog's benefit.

Ideal temperatures for B. dubia production is probably in the mid 80's.

KittyKat - Feel free to PM me if you'd like a list of a few locations to where you can find private sellers of feeder roaches. I'm not sure we are allowed to link to other forums on the website. I've personally done business with the following and have been most pleased... although I was obtaining more "exotic" species for collecting rather than feeding so prices may be on the steeper end:
Aaron Pauling.com
Greg's Exotic Inverts Home - Greg's Exotic Inverts
DoubleDs
Home - Roach Crossing

I apologize if I repeated anything that has already been said ; )

[Mr TinkyWinky]

Thanks Jeff,
I'll definitely expand the diet i feed the roaches, even before i start breeding them. I have never given them grain, cereal or protein rich food. I only ever fed them fruits and veggies, and the occasional cricket cube. Also, I never used water crystals before because I assumed there was adequate hydration in the fruits and veggies.
I thought the diet i was using was OK because the roaches never die (unlike the icky crickets i used before). But from what you say, I could improve the nutrition for my frog.
Thank you.

[JeffreH]

The water crystals are more of a useful tool for very large colonies and for species that fair better with more moisture in the diet. For example, the Eublaberus genus containing orange head roaches (Eublaberus posticus, an excellent feeder species) are roaches that need water crystals available at almost all times for their benefit. Without a constant supply of water crystals, this species often eats the wings of their fellow roaches and will resort to cannibalism very readily. I often suggest having water crystals available at all times for most roaches just to cover the bases and ensure success for keepers... it certainly does hurt to always have them available for any species. Plus, they are incredibly cheap online... about $1 per dry ounce that makes 1 gallon of water crystals. The pet stores rip you off with that "Cricket Quencher" and the Flukers gel products that are essentially the same thing at ridiculous prices in small jars ; )

Also - just want to make a note of this. I'm pretty passionate about keeping cockroaches because I culture a wide variety of species for pleasure. That being said, my recommendations are often sort of "high-end" for lack of a better term. These are cockroaches we are talking about, and true to what most people believe many species are incredibly hardy and forgiving of imperfection in their captive environment. In all honestly most roaches, particularly B. dubia just need some basic items: a bin (space), surface area (egg flats, TP rolls, drink carriers), heat (shoot for mid-80's for most species), food and hydration. The food and hydration part can go hand in hand with the veggie and salad items... and for cost effectiveness of feeding and for the benefits as a gutload I offer dry feed AND veggies as gutload and food. For smaller colonies, veggies can be the only hydration source and the roaches will fare just fine. So are you absolutely right from your experience in only using fruits and veggies for adequate hydration for smaller colonies.

For the benefit of out pets - we should shoot for offering as much variety as possible. Both in terms of the species of insect offered, and in terms of what we are feeding the roaches. As far as I'm concerned, having a dry gutload available to the roaches at all times in the form of chicken feed, dog/cat food, fish food, cereal etc gialong with a constant supply of water crystals will provide the roaches with 24/7 access to their food and hydration needs. Then the addition of various salad items a couple of times as week further increases their nutrional benefits to the frog and provides a supplemental but of food and moisture that the roaches thoroughly enjoy.

Bill! We'll catch up in a PM sometime most definitely! I apologize for going a bit off topic here Mr TinkyWinky in the previous postings - just love talking about my bugs ; )

[frogged]

I might just want to add this in, but it seems in several cases, a diet with excessive protein above the roaches' needs seemed to have led to the formation of uric acid, which later caused impaction. This happened to my whites as well, so I've simply been using repashy's bug burger to feed them ever since, at very efficient and cost effective rates.

Somewhat anecdotal, but if you do a google search on the above topics, you can see several queries.

[JeffreH]

Thank you frogged - I was unaware of this, but the logic behind it makes perfect sense.

When fed an excessively high protein diet cockroaches are subject to hyperketosis... ketones compete with uric acid for transport in the body. Ketone production goes up, the result is excess buildup up Uric acid... bad for roaches, and apparently bad for herps.

All the more reason why I think we should start focusing on the idea of higher MOISTURE in the diet and not necessarily protein. Indeed, as mentioned, cultures have successfully been raised on an almost exclusively veggie/fruit/green diet with no ill effects to reproductive fitness or vitality.

The amount of protein found in your typical dog kibble or fish food shouldn't pose an issue for the frogs or the roaches - but avoid feeding ground meat and table scrap mammalian meat product to colonies. Most species can thrive on a very minimalistic dry gutload so long as its supplemented with salad items. I have a neglected dubia bin that is still producing nymphs despite not being fed dry feed in over 3 months.