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Thread: At a loss.......

  1. #1
    NewFrogDude
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    Default At a loss.......

    1. Size of enclosure - 10g
    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences - Single tenant frog.
    3. Humidity - would love to tell you if I could get an accurate read. I have a meter in there but I dont trust it. His substrate is very moist and gets misted twice daily.
    4. Temperature 76.8 at night and 81 during the day
    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish- treated tap, treated with Reptisafe
    6. Materials used for substrate Eco-Earth Coconut fiber.
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - Cork Bark log (halved) fake vine type plant.
    - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
    8. Main food source - Crickets (pre-gutloaded from the store
    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) Do I need them if the crickets are pre-gutloaded?
    10. Lighting One 40w Day light, blue
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure 2 UTH heaters mouted on the sides.
    12. When is the last time he/she ate Friday 30,Nov,2012
    13. Have you found poop lately - Nope, He pooped the day after I got him, 2 pretty good sized ones at that. Hasn't had a BM in about a week now.
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
    15. How old is the frog - my best guess, he is no bigger than a silver dollar, couple of months old.
    16. How long have you owned him/her - Couple of weeks
    17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - Not sure
    18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
    19. How often the frog is handled - Not that often.
    20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - Living room, not much traffic where he is at.
    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) um? not sure what you mean here.

    Okay I am about to give up. I CAN NOT seem to find away to balance Humidity vs Heat. I have gone with packing tape as a means of insulation and taped 3/4 of his tank lid, top and bottom. It's a split top tank lid that is hinged lengthwise. I have 2 UTH mats on one side of the tank and I still cant get the tank to 80 if I put a lamp on it the temp shoots to 82+ and dried the tank out. What in the hell am I doing wrong? I just don't see how you guys can keep your humidity in a tank unless the substrate is completely soaked and almost muddy looking.


    I am at a loss.

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  3. #2
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    If the soil moisture is high; not swampy, but moist, then the ambient humidity can get a little below the recommended range without it becoming a problem. I'm not sure how far that can go and still be safe, but if it's only a little off don't worry too much. Maybe go to misting three times a day?

    You could put the water dish next to the heat source for awhile and see if the extra water evaporating helps.

  4. #3
    100+ Post Member DeeDub's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Hey man. Take'er easy.

    I know you prob don't wanna spend the cash, but sometimes you gotta.

    I use an 12x12 by 12 tall exo terra. I put cardboard over the entire top portions (two screen parts). I left an opening for a 50 watt black light in a mini deep dome fixture. I use a digital hydro therm made by zoomed (I think) that gives an accurate reading for temp and humidity; it also auto regulates heat by turning on the heat lamp. I mist once a day and my humidity is perfect (80-90 %) heat stays right at 82 (mid level in the tank...allows about 80 at substrate level)

    You have to prepare your substrate well to get a head start on humidity. Weather its loose or in the brick I soak my eco earth and wring it out so that water is not 'pouring' out of it, then put it in the tank. 3-4 inches deep.

    Ten gallon tanks can be hard to manage without a auto digital regulator like the one I meantioned. You have to have ventilation as well so you can't just seal up the top (you know this) to keep humidity. The uth suck IMO for heating. I use exclusively lights for all my frogs.

    Hope this helps.

    I spent:
    Tank 40 bucks new
    Light fixture 15 bucks new
    Bulb 8 bucks
    Hydrotherm 70 bucks (these cost about 100 at my pets art)

    I would reccomend a Zilla digital heat humidity gauge. They are about thirty bucks. They work awesome. If you can't afford the 70-100 bucks for the hydro therm I mentioned at least you can get accurate measurements.
    ........................................
    Thanks
    DW

  5. #4
    NewFrogDude
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Yeah I have a digital thermometer in their but I can't afford the Tank or the Hydrotherm at all. I am a massage therapist by trade and I tore the labrum (a ring of cartilage about the edge of a joint surface of a bone.) in my left hip which makes working damn near impossible at this stage. I mist his tank a lot, and I mean a lot. His substrate is really moist I am about to call it quits with the UTH and just go to a light but I don't want to dry his tank out. I used an entire brick of Eco-Earth in this tank so its about 3-4 inches as well. Im just at a loss on how to do this on the cheap ... really does not seem like its at all possible.

  6. #5
    100+ Post Member DeeDub's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    What wattage light are you using? I'd recommend a 45-50 watt halogen flood (infrared, not the fake infrared incandescent bulbs). They're pretty inexpensive, or a Ceramic Heat Emitter with a rheostat (adjuster for power). If you put it on one side of the tank your frog will self regulate by moving to cooler/warmer areas. Misting a couple times a day will keep your humidity at a good level.

    Not trying to be a dick, but if it becomes too much of a hassle and you can't afford him I'll buy him from ya depending on what he is. Others would take him off your hands too. Again not being a rude a$$, just trying to help you out if you need it.
    ........................................
    Thanks
    DW

  7. #6
    100+ Post Member DeeDub's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Also, with the light to one side and if you are using a low enough wattage bulb it won't dry out the substrate.
    ........................................
    Thanks
    DW

  8. #7
    NewFrogDude
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Define a lower wattage light. I am using a 40 watt light right now.

  9. #8
    100+ Post Member DeeDub's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Its drying out with a 40 watt? Wow, that is strange. I use a 50 watt basking light (spot light) in a tiny cage and it doesn't dry out. The surface will dry out in small areas after a few hours, but I mist and it's just fine.

    I'd say maybe your substrate wasn't moist enough to start. What digital gauge are you using. If it's the exo terra termo/hydro digital gauge with the single probe, the humidity measuring device probably doesn't work very well. I have several of these and they really are poor quality. The temp function works really well, but the humidity function is always way off.
    ........................................
    Thanks
    DW

  10. #9
    NewFrogDude
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Its just a digital thermometer.

  11. #10
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Here you go. I find great deals on Amazon.com.
    Zoo Med HygroTherm Humidity and Temperature Controller:Amazon:Pet Supplies

    This is how I do a 10 gallon without a Hygrotherm.
    Name:  1354830376645.jpg
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    There is a UTH on the left side that you cannot see. The light is dead center and is a 50 watt 75% intense spot light by Exo Terra. The lamp is a 5.5" Fluker's clamp lamp with dimmer switch. Temp stays at 80° to 82°. Humidity will sometimes drop to 64%. This works well and contains Pariah my second largest female.


  12. #11
    lumpbump
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    I wish I had more helpful information to share with you but I only have one frog and I try and keep it as simple as I can. I dont use gauges to check constant temps or humidity; but I do have a temp gun that i use to check my reptile rooms ambient temperature which varries from about 74 or so to the low 80s depending on season and time of day. I just make sure his soil appear as if it had rained in there. Some people mist daily or what have you. I took a plastic 20 oz soda bottle and measured out 16 oz and marked it with a line and took a small nail and melted/poked some holes in the cap that i can use to make it rain in my cage (manually of corse). I usually give him like 8 or so ounces of treated water every day or two days at the least and by looking at the top of the substrate I water the cage or not. Sometimes it gets real wet then i wont water for a bit longer. I also drip water directly on top of him when he first comes out of the ground to rinse off any loose substrate on his skin. so that keeps him moist. I may even go away with the water dish and see how that goes because in about 5 months I have yet seen him to go in it on his own. Maybe Im lucky with my location being in a relatively humid area and I dont often use the heater or AC which helps keep my ambient humidity inside around 60 percent. I hope you figure something that works for you and your frog. Id like to think that as long as it is eating and behaving normally you have nothing to worry about but for me "less is more" when dealing with all my exotic pets from tarantulas to boa constrictors and my one frog buddy who is probably my only real pet. The others are what I call zooilogical specimens in my home zoo

    Something to consider that I just thought about is your frog tanks' location in the room. Try and avoid putting them on outside walls as those areas tend to be affected more than an interior wall by the outside elements. Also if you really feel crafty you can make an enclosure in an enclosure. Take your current set up and put the whole thing in a larger acrylic/glass container and see if that helps retain heat and moisture better. People in the tarantula hobby make micro climates in the same way. Take your containers and put them inside a larger container and then heat the larger container which will heat the containers inside and the air around the inside container. It also helps keep humidity up if you have a container in a container. Just my thoughts.

  13. #12
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    I still suggest to get hydrotherm, keep in mind that with it you don't need humidity and temp gauges, so no need to spend $ on them. I was hesitant to buy it just because it is close to 200$ in Canada in stores, but after constantly failing a battle to keep climate where i want it to be i got one off ebay, amazon.com ships to US only. the thing is amazing and right now 3 more are coming my way.
    I must say that is the best investment in a frog hobby!
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  14. #13
    NewFrogDude
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    I get that I need a hydrotherm but unless any of you want to get me one for Christmas the chances of me getting on are slim to none. I mist him frequently and his substrate is always pretty moist. So its just a strange balancing act to figure this out.

  15. #14
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Hmm... Is it super cold/dry outside where you are? This might be something that will happen every winter. Dry air from your home could be causing his humidity to drop too low. Can you get a regular humidifier from walmart or something and put in his room? You can probably find one of those very cheap. Even a crappy one would do, just sit it near his tank. If the air around him isn't super dry his substrate probably wouldn't dry out so quickly. I don't have a hygrotherm, I just mist several times daily. That might be a less expensive way to fix your problem.

    Again, until you find a permanent solution you like, you can always moisten his soil a little more to compensate. Maybe even make a very wet spot on the opposite side of the tank from where he's sitting and let it evaporate out.

  16. #15
    NewFrogDude
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    I live in Washington and it been quite cold so far this year. He is in the living room. I would have this issue solved if I could put him in my bedroom but the wife needs the room to be -4309759082347509872348 degrees to fall asleep, all the while I am freezing my cheeks off lol. Along with being cold, its also dry as well. I mist his tank about 3 times a day and I am going to pour some water out in spot under the heat lamp to try and get it to evaporate and get his tank humid to where its within tolerable limits. Its just baffling to me at how to get 80% humidity and 80F and still have a balance with out my house feeling like I am in Florida in the middle of summer.

  17. #16
    NewFrogDude
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Quote Originally Posted by newfrogdude View Post
    i live in washington and it been quite cold so far this year. He is in the living room. I would have this issue solved if i could put him in my bedroom but the wife needs the room to be -4309759082347509872348 degrees to fall asleep, all the while i am freezing my cheeks off lol. Along with being cold, its also dry as well. I mist his tank about 3 times a day and i am going to pour some water out in spot under the heat lamp to try and get it to evaporate and get his tank humid to where its within tolerable limits. Its just baffling to me at how to get 80% humidity and 80f and still have a balance with out my house feeling like i am in florida in the middle of summer.

    /booo

  18. #17
    NewFrogDude
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    UPDATE!

    I have no idea why I why I didn't think of this sooner. I have a collection of Bettas and I used one of their store containers and filled it up with treated water and then stuck a little 10w mini heater that can heat a 2.5g tank to almost 80 and put that inside in the water of course. I then moved the substrate around to bury the jar and heater in the substrate the top of the cup is vented so the water can freely evaporate into the air. I then took one of my old felt snake mats and placed it on the top of the tank and cut out a space for the light. This should help insulate the tank and keep the heat in. I am already seeing results with it. The humidity is rising steadily and the temperature is starting to stabilize at 80.6!


    THANK GOD!!!

  19. #18
    100+ Post Member DeeDub's Avatar
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    Default Re: At a loss.......

    Nice job!
    ........................................
    Thanks
    DW

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