Substrate Questions

[HerpMan]

I'm interested in what some of you posters have as favorite substrates. I've done a lot of research and I've read a lot of different opinions. I am interested in using gravels because I read that organic substrates have tendencies to stick to the frogs (I have no idea how true this is). So, if you all can PLEASE help me out I'd appreciate your feedback. I'd like to know if anyone has experience using gravel and how well plants grow in it. Also, if anyone can explain the pros and cons to their preferred substrate.

Travis

[flybyferns]

I'm interested in what some of you posters have as favorite substrates. I've done a lot of research and I've read a lot of different opinions. I am interested in using gravels because I read that organic substrates have tendencies to stick to the frogs (I have no idea how true this is). So, if you all can PLEASE help me out I'd appreciate your feedback. I'd like to know if anyone has experience using gravel and how well plants grow in it. Also, if anyone can explain the pros and cons to their preferred substrate.

Travis

Hello Travis,
Welcome to Frog Forum !

Before deciding on a specific substrate one must know what frog will be in the enclosure

What frog are you planning to purchase?

organic substrates have tendencies to stick to the frogs ... frogs don't care if they have "dirt" on them

how well plants grow in it ....I would think that marginals would grow in gravel and filtered water. This would limit your choices.

Lynn

[NewFrogDude]

What about Sphagum Moss?

[IrishRonin]

Again we really need to know what type of frog your planning on keeping but the problem with gravel and sphagnum is the risk of ingestion and then impaction. I have a gecko tank that has an all tigers eye lagoon, with photos growing out of it and it works fine.

[HerpMan]

This tank will be housing D. leuc.

[flybyferns]

This tank will be housing D. leuc.

Well then,
The gravel and hydro layering will work; but less traditional. Doesn't mean it's wrong.
It's a personal choice. Some people use gravel as a dart substrate.

Saurian Enterprises, Inc :: Two part Terrarium Substrate

There are many, high humidity, plants that will grow in the gravel. The leucs will climb if given the space and places.
Darts will not like ie cocoa fiber stuck to them, it bugs them. Plain cocoa fiber should not be used. It hold too much water and ends up mucky. ABG is more commonly used as the 'soil' layer of substrate for a dart enclosures.
You will find numerous discussions regarding this.

Lynn

[deranged chipmunk]

if you are just starting out with frogs and plants, then i HIGHLY recommend an ABG mix. you can make it yourself, or purchase it ready made. follow that up with a few inches of leaf litter, and you should have no problems whatsoever. i have used it in some of my emersed set ups, and it works perfectly fine. i don't even use regular aquarium gravel in my planted fish tanks. there are so many better, nutrient rich substrates out there. gravel is fine for a turtle tank, or a fish tank with plastic plants, but if you want real plants, you need to upgrade from that stuff.

[HerpMan]

I'm going to look into the ABG mix. It sounds like it gives better options for the plants. Plants I would like to use include some ferns, moss, and several climbing plants. Possibly some falling plants. I want things that will spread throught the tank. I've applied the great stuff on the back of my tank and about ready to cover it with the coco fiber or something of the sort. For the most part part I want my 3d background to be covered with plants that will climb across it.

Thanks for the help so far!
Travis

[deranged chipmunk]

You can't go wrong with ABG. A note about ferns, make sure the species you select are good for high humidity terrariums. Most people believe that all ferns are, but there are many which will rot away in a high humidity environment. I know many people who had nothing but problems with maindenhair ferns, for example. For climbers and trailers, there are a ridiculous amount of options. Ficus, pothos, philodendron, peperomia, pilea, even some fittonia plants are known to trail. Have fun and post pics!!

[IrishRonin]

Hey Bill since we're on the subject what do you use for your Aquatic substrate?

[deranged chipmunk]

that really depends on the tank and what i am planting. i am a huge fan of cryptocoryne species, and they are HEAVY root feeders, so any tank that is going to have crypts in it, always has soil as it's base, with a (normally) black substrate capping it. i have used all the name brands, aquasoil, flourite, floramax, ecocomplete, ect. they are all pretty much equal. right now, i am running a crypt/java fern/anubias tank that has a soil/kitty litter base. if i have no root feeders, i will run fluval plant stratum or fluval shrimp stratum.

i use soil whenever there are root feeders, mainly because i HATE root tabs for fertilization. why spend $20 every other month for fertilizer tabs, when soil will do it for 2 years easy? and i have pretty much switched over to this soil exclusively, for both terrestrials AND aquatics:



it has all the goodies a young growing plant needs. worm castings, bat guano, elp, fish bone meal, soy bean meal, and more. here is what my "soiless" soil does: this is a pic of a plant that i have grown in several different tanks, under different conditions. i have grown this in an aquatic state, no growth, and emersed state, the same, no growth. i planted in my 125 palu, and there is dramatic difference. can you tell when the roots hit the soil? remember, there is about an inch and a half of coco fiber covering the soil. but i think the result is dramtic:

that plant has been the same size for almost a year, and now, obviously, it is growing well. funny thing is, neither i, nor the guy who i got it from, knows what the plant is. LOL it was in a clump of plants he gave me. he didn't even know he had it in his tank....lol

[HerpMan]

So, is it better to just buy the ABG mix or should I make my own? Also, I'm wanting to add springtails, woodlice and cleaning insects. How do I go about this exactly?

Travis

[deranged chipmunk]

making your own is good because you have control over what goes in it. it's also great when making up large batches. always nice to have extra rather than not enough. as far as insects go, if you can purchase a culture locally, that is the way to go. otherwise order some online, or buy some from another member here. then you can either culture them out of the tank (preferred) or in the tank. either way, it doesn't matter. but either way, give them a few weeks before adding the predators. they will snack on your critters in between meals, so it's best to give them a fighting chance.

[NewFrogDude]

So here is a question. I have heard that you want the substrate moist but I have also heard that you want it close to muddy as well. Which is right?

[deranged chipmunk]

you only want muddy if you are growing marginals (semi-aquatic). otherwise moist, but not a bog. if your soil is too moist, your plants will rot, unless of course they are bog plants. but for your typical pileas, fittonias, ect, you want a well draining soil that will stay moist, not soggy.