New WTF hasn't eaten, bathed or pooped. Hides day and night!

[BlaiseDaFrog]

Hi, I have a new whites . He arrived last wednesday and I picked him up Friday. We have a nice terrarium with shelter, a climbing branch, plants and a water dish. Using Eco soil as a base. He has not eaten since he arrived. We have put crickets in with him several nights and he doesnt even look at them. He sleeps most the day and nights. For two days he has spent most the day and night wedged behind his waterfall. He came out this am and laid beside it most of the day until this afternoon and then went back behind. His night light/heater is on now and he's still behind there sleeping. The tank is being kept accurately at about 84ish during the day and 76ish at night with humidity between 50 and 60...occasionally higher or lower depending on time of day. Were worried as its almost a week since hes eaten and he hasnt been in the water. Hes gotten moisture from us spraying occassionally but shouldn't he have more fluids? His colour is a nice green and he doesn't look sick. (its actually my sons frog and I'm a helping-mom because I noticed he posted on the blog section, which wont get as much views.) Does anyone have any suggestions how we can make him a happy frog? Oh, also, when we put his night lower heat bulb on, will other lights in the room (my sons night stand light for reading) affect him or will the red light kind of filter that out?
Thank you!!

[killerecho]

Welcome to the forum. If that's the same frog in your profile pic, then I can't find anything obviously wrong with it - at least as of when the picture was taken. It doesn't look diseased or malnourished to me. Where did you get it? Not all pet shops are created equal, and expertise in frog husbandry among the staff is especially hard to come by. So, it's unfortunately not uncommon to find frogs being kept in less than optimal conditions at pet stores; and this can result in stress to the animal by the time you take it home. Furthermore, there's no guarantee that they got it from their breeder/importer in great condition to begin with.

That said, it is normal for a new frog to take a little time to acclimate itself to its surroundings. During that period, it may sleep more than usual, and may not be interested in food. Your temperatures and humidity are okay. Do you have any pictures of your tank setup? I would recommend you switch ecosoil for something that doesn't stick to your frog's skin so easily, such as moist paper towels or sphagnum moss. Loose substrate is also an impaction risk as the frog may end up ingesting it when lunging after prey (this can be avoided by bowl feeding, however). You could also add a layer of leaf litter or moss to the top of the ecosoil.

Is "76ish" the night temperature with the heat bulb on? Other light in the room will be detected by the frog, but depending on the individual, may or may not have any effect on its activity. For caution's sake, try to keep the room as dark as possible when night time comes around, since the frog is still trying to adjust.

There's also the unpleasant possibility that the frog could be stricken with parasites or some kind of disease. The best way to find out for sure is to take it to a vet. I know this isn't the first choice for most petkeepers, but it is the most responsible thing to do with a new pet showing negative signs. The list of possible ailments is potentially long, and you won't be able to treat any of them yourself. It's also generally a good idea to find out vets in your area with amphibian experience ahead of time, just in case you need their help. However, there's no need to panic yet. For now, just observe the frog for signs of trouble e.g. losing weight, cloudy or discolored eyes, spotting and dry skin and staying on the ground all time.

Hope this helps. Please keep us updated.

[BlaiseDaFrog]

Heres two pics, can you see the set up enough? 18x18x24. The pic of Blaise is from the first day we got him. he looked healthy. He still does, nice colour, no spots, eyes clear. The pet store has been very good, local to us. Weve used them for several years.They have used the frog breeder for many years and have not had any problems. The only thing I would say has been inaccurate is the soil. I suspected it would stick to him and they said it would be ok and he wouldnt spend much time on the ground. He does have a little spot he likes t sit under the edge of the waterfall during the day though. I do have some moss from Exo Terra but it says Forest Moss....is that different from Sphagnum? (I will google as well). I was going to put it on top of the soil but then the humidity was high already so i didnt. We shut the waterfall off at time to control the humidity from being to high and spritz if too low. The Forest Moss seems like it may be different as its little bits...possibly ingested??? But again, I will google the sphagnum. Weve been playing sme WTF croaking for him in the hopes he would be interested and come out. he kind of moved around awhile ago when I did it but stayed put. I also noticed him doing something that I dont know if its normal...he opens his mouth...(to me he looks like hes dry/thirsty or gagging, if that helps describe it). Is this normal or trouble?
Thanks for your great reply.
Kelly and Zachary

[killerecho]

Your setup looks fine. I would try to add more climbing surfaces near the top, though. Either a few branches or taller plants will do. You can also use fake vines or suction some fake plants to the glass. By adding more climbing areas to the "airspace" of the tank, you are effectively making the vivarium bigger, as your frog will be able to roam in more areas than before.

Are those plants real? If not, you don't really need a soil-like substrate at all. You can use something as simple as moistened paper towels for the ground. I'm not suggesting that you do that at this point, but it is an option in case you decide to remove the eco soil later on. Forest moss is different from sphagnum, but it should serve the same purpose of keeping in moisture and covering the dirt, keeping it from getting on the frog. It can still be an impaction risk, which is why I recommend either keeping crickets in a bowl or feeding them with a set of tongs. White's tree frogs are not shy eaters, and should not mind being fed by hand.

What is the temperature in the tank at night if you don't use the heat lamp? Whites can tolerate nighttime drops down to 65 F without issue. The reason I asked about the night/heat lamp earlier is because there's a chance you may not need it at all. How many watts is it? You mentioned that it gives off a red color. I'm not an expert on the matter but I remember reading something to the effect that not all frogs are blind to red light, and that a red night light has been known to interfere with the activity levels of certain nocturnal species of tree frogs. Basically, if your temperatures are above 65 without the night light i.e. you don't need the bulb for the heat, you should try going without it and see what happens.

As for him opening his mouth, that's most likely just normal skin shedding behavior. Most of my frogs do it every week or so. There may be other explanations...but I don't know of any...so no worries there.

[BlaiseDaFrog]

Thanks Brian! I am feeling a little better about it as it seems were on the right track. I will add the moss today....I dont want to be to disruptive and take the soil out right now as I just want to leave him be until he gets a routine (more than sleeping). The pet store had suggested we research what plants are good for WTF and add a few real ones, which is why we went with soil, but once we put the fake ones in, the room for real doesnt seem all that great. I will definately find some hanging vines for the sides today! At night, the first night, the tank went to 69. We got the red light the next day (partly so we could see him if he was active at night and partly because we were worried if it went below 70.) we will try tonight without the light. Its a bit warmer right now at night but as we move further into winter, my sons room will get colder at night. Hopefully by then were already in a routine and a red light on wont affect him. I have a few sort of ignorant questions.....when you feed the crickets in a bowl, do you pull all legs off so they dont leave the bowl? We did take off back legs on one but it still went all over the tank and ended up hiding. and should we feed once we turn the day light off and make it night? Also, if it makes him happier to have his night light off, when does my son get to watch him or "socialize" with him? If he sleeps in the daytime and its dark at night, how do people have videos of their frogs croaking and of them out of their terrariums and such?

[BlaiseDaFrog]

hmmmmm, just got a look at Blaise as he came out and went to his day sleep spot beside the waterfall....the little spots beside his eyes (where it shows they are overweight) have a brownish dry spot now...that cant be good. He also has a little brown spot on his head now....any ideas what thats from. Our water is well water but it goes through a reverse osmosis system which cleans out the bad. Sort of the same as alot of bottled water... he looks skinnier now on his back. Any idea what can cause the brown spots. will see if I can get a picture. ****** I just looked through other threads and see pic of other WTF's that have the brown circles...so I guess it's normal but he didn't seem to have them like that when we first got him.

[HerpDerp]

He doesn't seem to look too bad. It can take a bit of time for a frog to adjust to its new surroundings. IMO you don't need a light for night time. My tank gets down around 70-71 at night with no problems at all. I'm not really sure about the brown spots. I was having a hard time finding them in the pictures, but maybe it's just his natural color?

As far as feeding, you shouldn't need to pull the legs off crickets, I never do. I feed in a tupperware container inside the enclosure. The first few times I tried it I had to put Glurmo in the container, and then I had to just show him the container. Now when he sees it he knows what's up. Same with my little guy in quarantine. It only took a week for him to figure it out. They lunge right into the container. If you want to give him an energy boost to get him eating you could try a pedialite soak or a honey soak. I've used the honey bath before and it seems to really perk a frog up. Just get a small container with a vented lid and put enough luke warm water in it to come up to his mouth (not above) and add a couple drops of honey to it and soak him for 15 minutes or so.

And as far as being able to watch your frog, they are very easily conditioned to be active at certain times. Lrrr is usually hiding and sleeping when I turn his light on in the morning but around 8pm (an hour before lights out) he's sitting on his vine waiting for food. Glurmo is almost always relaxing in his water bowl in the morning and will slowly meander out of his dish and find a comfy spot to sleep. But this is also the best time to get him to croak. Just about anything will get him going when he's sitting in his dish in the morning. He's a bit slower going at night but when he's ready to eat it's pretty brutal. They aren't terribly active frogs, but they sure are fun to watch for those few minutes a day they are visibly active.

[Pluke]

I just wanted to add that if you're not sure about your well water that you should just buy some spring water from the store. I'm on well water and I won't use it just because I'm paranoid.. that and it's hard. I'm not sure about R/O Water but I know there has been cases where frogs have been hindered by distilled water, usually only if they're soaking in it though. It's Okay to mist with it. I agree with Michelle though your frog looks pretty normal.

[BlaiseDaFrog]

Thanks pluke! I'm glad he looks normal! Maybe the light will do the trick! R/O water is just water that's been cleaned, we also have it going through a UV light, which removes bacteria. Because r/o removes everything, the system puts a bit of calcium back in the water. I will have to compare to spring water!

[BlaiseDaFrog]

Thanks Michelle! When you've done the honey soak, do you wait and do it at night or interupt his daytime? I will try turning off the light tonight as maybe he's just messed up as he can see the red light. He sleeps all night! Wll try the dish method tonight now that I understand. I'm sure I will have to put him in it for now. Will try to get him before he heads to jam himself behind the waterfall, which is about 2 hours before night. Will see what happens!

[HerpDerp]

Thanks Michelle! When you've done the honey soak, do you wait and do it at night or interupt his daytime? I will try turning off the light tonight as maybe he's just messed up as he can see the red light. He sleeps all night! Wll try the dish method tonight now that I understand. I'm sure I will have to put him in it for now. Will try to get him before he heads to jam himself behind the waterfall, which is about 2 hours before night. Will see what happens!

I would do the honey soak either in the morning before he settles in to sleep or in the evening when he's waking up. The light could definitely be messing him up. Did the pet store you got him from turn all the lights out at night? Glurmo doesn't seem to mind some light at night but I got him from a big box store where they never completely turn the lights out. Once he's more comfortable you can probably try the light, but it does take time for them to adjust to a new routine and new surrounding.

[BlaiseDaFrog]

He was only at the store for 2 and a half days and at the suppliers before that. the store is probably pretty climate controlled so i think the lights would have been out. will definately see if that works tonight! maybe its all he needs! Thanks again!

[HerpDerp]

No wonder he's stressed! Jumping from place to place like that must be stressful. He should definitely settle down after a while . Keep us posted!

[BlaiseDaFrog]

yes and Im sure we havent really helped as we keep trying to do different things to help him and he prbably just wants to be left alone! Hes pretty clam though, does not jump away for you. I just spread moss around the floor and around him and he didnt try to move away from me. Michelle, how tall is the container you use for the feeding? THis guy is pretty big, hes about 3".

[killerecho]

Some good advice here about the honey bath and lighting. You can place the crickets in any container where they can't climb out the sides. Smooth glass or plastic is fine. It doesn't have to be too deep (3 inches or so is enough), as crickets won't jump out unless startled.

Your frog looks okay - the circles are not a concern - though I would say its visibly thinner than before. I urge you to try the tong feeding method, or even just hold a cricket to its mouth and see if he goes for it. Once he starts eating on his own, you can put the cricket bowl in after lights out. Some of my frogs will wake up after a light misting as the lights go off.

Live plants have the advantage of being better at preserving humidity inside the vivarium. At this point, however, I would avoid major changes or anything that might disrupt the frog's comfort level. But it may be something to look into later on.

Again, I would suggesting turning off the heat bulb and let him have complete darkness. Once he acclimates, you can use a low powered flashlight to check in on him after dark but avoid shining it directly in the frog's eyes. As for "socializing", I would avoid all contact for now, but if and when he gets over this adjustment period, he may put up with light occasional handling. White's tree frogs are one of the more "touchable" frogs, but I would still try to keep it to a minimum. And remember to wash hands before and after handling.

[HerpDerp]

yes and Im sure we havent really helped as we keep trying to do different things to help him and he prbably just wants to be left alone! Hes pretty clam though, does not jump away for you. I just spread moss around the floor and around him and he didnt try to move away from me. Michelle, how tall is the container you use for the feeding? THis guy is pretty big, hes about 3".

I use a container that is about 4 inches tall. Not because it is necessary, it's just what I had around. I have a tall setup though so he's usually above it when I put the container in. If he isn't I usually put him on a branch above the container so he can see inside. In my quarantine tank the container is about the same size, but Lrrr never seems to have a problem making his way into his container, no matter where he is! Glurmo (in the main tank) is over 2 inches now and has no problems getting into his container, and Lrrr is a bit smaller and doesn't have any problems. One more thing about the high edges, the crickets can't climb even short containers, but when my frogs jump into the containers the crickets tend to jump too. With the higher edges they'er less likely to jump out of the container.

[BlaiseDaFrog]

Thanks to you both for all the help! We're going to try the honey bath tonight, just waiting until its a little closer to lights out. He's in his Pre-nighttime hiding position now, not quite behind the waterfall but close. Were going to put him into the feeding dish with a cricket and see what happens. It willbe an early lights out by about an hour but I want to help my son with it before I go out.

[BlaiseDaFrog]

He has suscessfully eaten I didn't see but he pooped so he probably has eaten

[killerecho]

Great to hear!

[Bolisnide]

Greetings Blaisedafrog~
Good looking frog!
All of the advice above is right on...
Just wanted to share my experience with my whites, to reassure you that your on the right track:
-My white's didn't eat for one week after I brought him home! (be persistent and regular (every night for now, about 3-5 crickets in the bowl per night), the glass bowl feeding method is best when monitoring your frogs food intake, you can search the forum for tips. There are many posts about feeding from a glass bowl). This method ensures your frog is eating AT LEAST every other day, if not for several days - then worry. Dust with Calcium with D3 every other feeding, and multi vits once per week. Feed at night in complete darkness.
-Do not handle your frog (causes intense stress)
-allow your frog time to settle in. Imagine if you were moved from one place to another, without any knowledge of where you were going, or if you were safe? The frog needs time to trust you.
-cover 3 sides of his tank for security
-don't 'spy' on him too much, this also causes stress
-light and night schedule a must. And complete darkness at night.
Good luck,
everything looks good. Quiet, and patience are key during the transition into your home.
Be patient and I'm sure all will be ok.