Carpet and water bowl?

[Hoppity100]

Okay, I have two things to write about and thought this was the best place to start.

In my tank I have pebbles pushed to one end being stabilized with smooth rocks. Rocks don't stay in place and there is a little water, I had to place shallow round dish in same area with eco earth fiber that they like to sit on because it is dry. They can also hide underneath the dish, it is propped on pebble/rock surface. I read about indoor outdoor carpet in reptile tanks. I got some today and cut a piece to fit. It fits but gets wet. I did not leave it in the tank and wanted to know if this is safe agains anyt toxins from backing of carpet? The grassy part on top is soft and they did sit on it a few minutes. I now have it soaking in warm water. The internet says you can use this with reptiles but, that's if it is dry. My carpet will get wet eventually.The frogs liked it because it looks like natural grass to them.

And, I wonder why people give their frogs a water bowl instead of putting water in tank and making land areas? My frogs enjoy swimming in water. I can't imagine giving them a bowl and seeing them just sitting, not swimming. I have water in my tank because I thought that is what a tank is for. Plus, their home is natural this way. They have driftwood above water, treehouse, rocks, pebble land area with dry eco earth fiber to sit in. Do people not put water in their tank because they don't like cleaning? I take my tank apart once a week to clean and rinse everything. Pets cannot speak and tell owner they would like more water. Does anyone feel the same way? Thanks

[steampunk]

I got White's mate, and while I do have an waterfall/pond area they aren't big swimmers. So I also have a water bowl for them, which I know they use each night.

Last night was the first time I saw one of them sit in the pond area on a semi submerged rock.

IMO I think it depends on the frog/toad species, whether they like deep areas to swim. White's normally don't as they are arboreal.

[steampunk]

Not sure about the carpet though lol sorry

[Hoppity100]

The carpet is fine if its dry. Mine will get wet when it is placed on top of pebbles. I put in more smooth rocks until I know carpet is safe if wet. Maybe I'll just keep set up I have, with eco earth in shallow dish. Frogs like it. I feed them either by putting a worm on a rock or dangling it in front of them with tongs. They sure hopped on that carpet fast because it resembles grass.

[Hoppity100]

Yeah, they are a little different from FB's. Cracks me up that people give them a small water bowl then spend money on a fogger and lights. The lights might be ok if they are the right type of lights. But, to create humidity: if they have a larger water source (preferably heated water) and a cover on the tank, you get humidity. No need for a fogger. They do need warmth and I know they're not the same as FB's (might not be swimmers) but they need humidity and need to be moist. The dish should be 6-8" long and 4-5" deep for them. I know they like branches and vines, mine do, too.

[steampunk]

Yeah I know what you mean. My terrarium is planted with a false bottom and a waterfall, and if I need extra heat I have an aquarium heater. Plenty of humidity for me lol. And on low humidity days I mist in the morning before college/work.

I wouldn't mind getting a fogger but it would be more for me than the frogs.

I only have a shallow dish (vegemite lid) because my pond area is to deep and I'm worried about them drowning. Although today I'm gonna get some big pebbles to put in there for them to rest on

[Hoppity100]

I'm glad you saw my responses about a fogger and humidity. I didn't know about a fogger. My tank is fine: submersible heater and screen lid which I can partially cover which creates humidity. I don't have lights on my hood, I don't want frogs living with light in their eyes. But, for humidity to form you need moisture. Hey, I know, a good water source. So, I have about 3" of water and land is driftwood (above water), rocks, pebble area (I wanted to place piece of indoor outdoor carpet on), shallow dish with eco fiber (they like to sit on it and hide underneath it), and a treehouse that they often sit on. I created choices for them to be on land in more than one place. Tank is near the window, near a vent from furnace, they have natural light then small lamp next to tank in the evening with 15 or 25 w bulb. I don't even need to mist.

During winter if we have zero weather I can move tank to another room. I close drapes at night. Water is 75-76 degrees. They are all over the place. But, like I said, I gave them choices. I don't know what a fogger costs but it seems like extra work. No wonder an owner needs a fogger, it sounds like there is not enough moisture. Its like say you take a warm/hot shower, afterwards your bathroom is steamy and you can't see in the mirror. Why add more moisture if you could, when you don't need it? If you get humidity from the shower (warm/ hot water source) then add humidity, it just does not seem right. I was just trying to help make life easier for the frog. I am glad you wrote. You must have frogs? What is your set up like? Thanks

[Hoppity100]

Yeah, adding big pebbles to dish is a good idea, I would add them, too.

[steampunk]

Yeah that's why I have the heater.

I've got two white's so they like it pretty warm and humid. I have an exo terra 18x18x24 cage with 3/4 land separated by a shoreline and waterfall. I got some live plants and a magnatural vine bridge going across the tank. I think the fogger are a gd idea in low humidity situations where they are connected to a hydrothermastat, and they person can't mist all the time.

Sounds to me like you have a really sweet setup.

Here's a picture to give justice to my description lol

[Hoppity100]

I can't see your picture well enough to find everything, but, what type of heater do you have? how big is your water dish? I see 2 dishes, can't tell which is water. I see why owners get a fogger and heater, you almost have to, to make humidity. Since your set up is vertical, you probably have branches for climbing. Waterfall sounds nice. I posted about humidity/fogger earlier to explain how I get my humidity. I have FB's with about 60 water 40 land plus extra land areas. Submersible heater, water 75-76 degrees. I cover part of tank and it creates humidity. Light is natural with small lamp beside tank.

I know your type of frog may not be a swimmer like mine, but, I found other owners giving bowl of water that does not sound large enough and their frog has to sit in it, not swim. If these are all frogs, they all need water, so, tree frogs have no choice in amount of water provided. The fogger sounds like a great measure and lights might bother frogs, too. With little water, you need a fogger. I thought that was what an aquarium was for (add water) even though your frog is a climber (people buy vertical type set up) they probably would not mind more water. Did not mean to get carried away. If you have time, its ok to write about your set up, as I can't see better from your picture. Thanks

[FrogFriend]

It all depends on the toad. There are some toads that prefer a more aquatic environment and some that like more terrain . I have talked to other FBT people who said they originally started with a more aquatic environment and there toads never really left the land portion/dock. So they changed it to have a primarily land environment with a small water dish/jacuzzi and their toads were much more happy. Also, as for fogger and humidifers, there are a few reasons for that. If you have a primarily land habitat then you need something to keep them moist, hydrated and humidity level high. Plus, depending on your toad species, some of them come from areas that are quite humid and the humidity and fog are more along the lines of keeping their habitat as natural as possible. I have a fogger and my habitat is primarily aquatic, but they LOVE when the fogger comes on! Before I got the fogger I was using a spray bottle to keep the humidity level up, they LOVED that- it was like standing in the rain for them. They would always come out from where they were hiding to get their shower.Plus, I live in an extremly dry climate, no matter if it is winter or summer. Also, another thing to keep in mind. They are fire-bellied TOADS. Now these toads are perceived more like frogs because they do enjoy water and swimming like frogs but they are still toads and therefor don't want/need to be submerged all the time. Frog Facts - Frogs vs. Toads to show you the difference between frogs and toads. "They are highly aquatic and usually found in slow-moving streams and ponds. When out of water, they stick to the region’s coniferous and broadleaved forests." from Oriental Fire-bellied Toads, Oriental Fire-bellied Toad Pictures, Oriental Fire-bellied Toad Facts - National Geographic. So, it's all a matter of what your toads like and what works with your lifestyle. Everyone is different! Hope this helps!

[Hoppity100]

Thanks for taking the time to write. My FB's love water and land both. If frogs are different, it seems reasonable to start by offering land and water and see what the frog/toad likes. I am not convinced water bowls people are using are large enough. I know some frogs like humidity more than others, maybe. But, if tank had enough water/moisture and a heater (like underwater type for example) and right cover and light, there would already be humidity. Yes, I can see why someone buys a fogger, too much land. Then they need one. Toad or frog: they both need moisture and water. Frogs may be swimmers but toads love mud and water. I felt that a fogger was more work for the owner eventhough they are helping their frog. It is ok to try a larger water dish or add water and watch the frog. I watch mine to find their favorite areas. If you live where its cold and dry, yes they need added humidity. As soon as the snow flies here I will move my tank upstairs to another room and table.

Yes, I know the differences between frogs and toads. I also consider their origin. But they both have in common aa need for water, whether they swim in it or not. FB's are both liking land and water. Toads also like land and water. I am speaking on behalf of a frog or toad. I also won't give mine roaches (even if stores sold them here) because of a shell. The roach is larger than the frog's intestines and frogs/toads tend to swallow and gulp food down. A frog/toad does not know any better....when they see food, they eat! They also can't talk to ask for more water or different food. I offer mine a variety of food. Am glad you wrote, you must care about pets like I do.

[FrogFriend]

Maybe I am not clear on how small you are seeing some people's water dish. If they are using the lid of a milk gallon, then I would agree, yes- that's too small. But most pool/jacuzzi things that you can buy for your amphibians are fairly adequate. Now if you have a bunch of toads in one tank and just one little pool, that also is not enough. I agree with not giving roaches, I too think the shell is to hard for them. Mine get crickets and the occasional wax worm as a special treat. Animals may not be able to say words, but they can show you their needs if you are paying attention. I have tried many different habitat designs to see what my toads liked the most. When I had more land and a pool, I found that they were always in the pool. When I changed it and built the pool into the land and had a small area of water for swimming, I saw that they spent more time in the swimming area and the pool then on the land. Eventually my set-up lost more and more land. Even now, I have a turtle dock covered with moss and they rarely go onto it. I find them more often hidden in my plant or on a large rock that pokes them out of the water just a bit. But not everyone pays as much attention to their pets. Some people get a set up and leave it. Not realizing (or in some cases caring) that there toads want more water and that they are all trying to fit in the pool. It's the same with any other pet. I don't understand why people would get a dog and leave it outside and never go out and play with it or love on it or take it for hikes, etc. Seems pointless to me, dogs aren't usually happy being separated from their pack, and it's humans are it's pack. But not everyone sees it that way. Some people see them as only a way to get a job done, guarding the house/barn, rounding the livestock, etc. and not as a pet. Those people usually don't change their minds, even if you talk til you are blue in the face. And then you have the people who just don't know any better and would change it if they knew. But they don't think about finding forums and asking questions. They will set it up based on the criteria that the pet store gave them. One pet store I was in had FBTs in aquatic environment with some branches coming out the water and some lily pads to rest on. Another pet store had them in completely terrain habitat. I would say that the best thing you could do if you personally see someone with a habitat that you feel is inappropriate is to ask them where they came up with the idea for the habitat (in case they have already gone through the gauntlet of trying different things) and if they say it's what the pet store told them to do, ask them questions like, do your toads spend more time in their pool or the water? (etc) and if you find that a habitat change may be better, than gently suggest it, because like I said, they may just not know any better. I don't consider myself an expert by any means. I saw them at the petstore and wanted one. I asked the petstore lady a bunch of questions and could tell she had no idea. I decided not to get one at the time and spent about a month doing as much research as I could find to answer my questions. Then I got my toads. Any time something comes up with them, I research it. I found this forum so I can ask others their opinions and get ideas and share what I have learned. But as you said, I care about my pets and that is just who I am. Many people are impulse buyers and don't do their research. It's a sad truth.

[Hoppity100]

You brought up some very good points: I've had the same experience with pet stores: one refused to give hamsters a wheel and a young employee gave me at least 5 ridiculous excuses. Same store sells dead worms repeatedly, they also housed alot of balas with alot of red tails. I watched for 30 seconds, long enough to see balas were bullying red tails. Tank was like 13" x 13". I asked the store if they could separate them, got a blank stare with a facial expression that said "so what is the problem?" Same store has gigantic feeder goldfish tank (often half empty) and those fish could easily be divided into small tanks. Gee, house balas in that huge tank, its big enough to add red tails if the store could bother themselves to add some plants. Another store that sold the FB's had them in with red claw crabs. Ok, so frogs stayed away from crabs (bet they weren't happy sharing with them) but frogs did not have dry land! They had wet pebbles, not enough added plants or rocks or caves or eco earth substrate, etc. That's cheap to house them with crabs when they'd be happier just being with each other. Why don't stores care? They gave me poor vague advice with their pets. Some employees could answer my questions but most had no answer.

Anyone who has had 6th grade science should know that frogs/toads like land, water, plants, rocks, warmth, bugs, branches, substrate, etc. This isn't that hard to care for a frog's needs. Every time I clean my frog tank I rearrange some things to make it better. I love doing it! Like you said, research first then after getting pet home try different ideas to determine what pet likes. And I'm glad you aren't fond of feeding roaches. Gee, its like me swallowing a whole ear of corn or a whole egg plant....maybe a whole chicken. I can't imagine a roach even making it past digestion in a frog. What happens if frog has pyloric stenosis? Frogs often sit for periods at a time, when in captivity this could be why they're not hopping more. They know their activity is limited. With any prolonged sitting or inactivity this may contribute to slower peristalsis, so I'm thinking this impaction business is painful, frog suffers, and could easily die from bowel obstruction or perforation. I'm thinking of what's best for the frog. Sorry to get carried away but I have bad thoughts about frogs when given a roach. I would not give mine roaches, it does not seem right. I am glad you wrote and you do pay attention to your pet(s) like me. I also have 4 hermits, fish tank, dog, cat, friendly possums and squirrels, too. Yep, I'm busy.....also have a husband who complains about everything. He's like having a pet, too, except he talks. Write anytime, I like sharing and I like your ideas.