Need some help....Impaction

[Pluke]

Roaches don't have shells and have very little chitin.. impaction is rarely caused by them if ever. I have never heard of someones animal getting impacted from one. They're a huge staple in a ton of animals diets, frogs included, People use them because they're much healthier than crickets and a lot easier to breed/raise, making them cheaper than worms. Grif said an adult "can constipate" a frog, not impact it. Impactions are much much worse and can kill, I have never heard of a roach ever killing a frog because it couldn't digest it.

[Hoppity100]

Roaches have shells and with chitin...I may have two different stories about what roaches contain and whether they're digestible or not. Gee, does size have anything to do with it? Maybe people use them because they're cheaper to breed and house. I am concerned about crickets, my FB's only get small crickets and not all the time. The stores don't sell roaches and I would not buy them anyway. My frogs eat worms fine so I will rotate them. What is the difference between constipation and impaction to you? They're actually so similar that one is not better or easier than the other. I'd be dusting roaches with vitamin/calcium powder plus fiber powder. Either that, or dangle a piece of a prune in front of frog. Frogs eat insects when they are presented, frogs can't talk or complain (like my husband) they eat when food is offered, they don't know they have a choice if one is offered. My stray cats eat what I offer, they don't know when their next meal is. I feed them canned food with chicken or tuna. No wonder they keep coming every night. But, it seems like worms are safest for frogs/toads. Anything soft in the bug family. Forgot to mention: constipation can and often does lead to impaction easily, impaction is painful and can lead to bowel obstruction or potential perforation. Combine this with inactivity and well, it just gets worse. Just looking out for the frog.

[DVirginiana]

Roaches have shells and with chitin...I may have two different stories about what roaches contain and whether they're digestible or not. Gee, does size have anything to do with it? Maybe people use them because they're cheaper to breed and house. I am concerned about crickets, my FB's only get small crickets and not all the time. The stores don't sell roaches and I would not buy them anyway. My frogs eat worms fine so I will rotate them. What is the difference between constipation and impaction to you? They're actually so similar that one is not better or easier than the other. I'd be dusting roaches with vitamin/calcium powder plus fiber powder. Either that, or dangle a piece of a prune in front of frog. Frogs eat insects when they are presented, frogs can't talk or complain (like my husband) they eat when food is offered, they don't know they have a choice if one is offered. My stray cats eat what I offer, they don't know when their next meal is. I feed them canned food with chicken or tuna. No wonder they keep coming every night. But, it seems like worms are safest for frogs/toads. Anything soft in the bug family. Forgot to mention: constipation can and often does lead to impaction easily, impaction is painful and can lead to bowel obstruction or potential perforation. Combine this with inactivity and well, it just gets worse. Just looking out for the frog.

What do you think pacs eat in the wild? Mostly insects, occasionally small mammals or other frogs. Rarely worms. Their systems are evolved to eat this sort of prey. ALL insects have a chitinous exoskeleton (not a shell), even your crickets. With the exception of removing wings or legs, this cannot be removed. The roaches are not cheaper or easier to house than nightcrawlers; people use them because they are safe feeders, especially if the owner is watching for problems like this one. A frog should be watched for signs of impaction even if it's on the safest possible diet.

The difference between constipation and impaction is the same as it is in a human. One is an inconvenience and the other is a serious medical condition.

Saying that someone is being irresponsible by feeding roaches because they don't know how sensitive their frogs digestive system is is like saying that everyone should eat gluten free products because they don't know if they are allergic or not. Frogs that are too sensitive to eat roaches are the abnormality; most are fine. In fact, this frog is probably not that sensitive. Like I said, this is a very common problem for pacs.
Your feeding style is not wrong, but that doesn't mean that everyone else's is incorrect. There are some dietary red flags to watch out for, but dubia roaches aren't one of them.

[Hoppity100]

True, they eat insects in the wild because animals don't know when next meal is coming. Yes, constipation is slowed and difficult movement. Impaction can be life threatening if its not moved properly thru GI tract, especially made worse with type/size of food and inactivity. How does someone conclude a frog is "sensitive?" If I eat tons of popcorn, have severe LLQ pain for several days and can't move, am I just sensitive or could I have diverticulosis? or an impaction? what if I had a localized mass with infection/abscess? gangrene? perforation? You can't tell exactly how frog feels nor should frog suffer ( can tell if it dies and autopsy is done). What I am saying is, why take the risk when owners have a choice that won't even come close to causing an impaction? Many people are sensitive to foods and they have the option of choosing different food. A frog in captivity doesn't. I'm not crazy about giving mine crickets, but they gobble the small ones which look much better than the large boney ones. Its like giving a dog rawhide made in China. This causes all kinds of havoc. Dogs don't know any better, people should though.

Gluten and allergy are not the same thing as impaction. I am not trying to make someone feel bad, but felt an impaction and a sick or ill frog warrant talking about what it is fed. I understand your point and I hope that person can offer different food. I can't imagine certain insects getting thru a frog's GI tract safely. Some do die in the wild from eating the wrong bug. But, as pets it makes sense to me to give food that is as safe as possible. I'm speaking on behalf of frogs since they cannot speak. I've got to go to bed, otherwise I'll be up typing all night. Tomorrow I can try to read about frog digestive systems and enzymes they have. I have fiber powder in case mine look bloated or have signs of not feeling well. Hope what I wrote helped.

[DVirginiana]

Hoppity, I am well aware that gluten allergy is not the same thing as an impaction. I was making an analogy that something that is a problem for a very small percentage of the population is no reason for the majority to avoid it out of paranoia. If this person had been feeding mealworms or excessive amounts of pinkies, then diet would have been a major discussion point. People on this forum (in my experience) are not the type to tiptoe around someone's feelings when tough advice can help the frogs. The reason no one else was talking about that is because dubias HAVE NOT been documented to cause impaction.

I think popcorn is a good analogy here. Corn is a common human staple food. Yes, some people (my father for instance, who has had major surgery for diverticulitis and cannot eat small grains) may suffer severe infection, pain, or death from eating it. For these people, there are specialized diets. However, saying that it is bad parenting for someone to buy their child popcorn at a movie because of this is a bit ridiculous.

Roaches have low risk and the reward of a safe, home-bred food supply and added variety to the diet (which nearly everyone will agree is beneficial). If you can find any information that dubia roaches are an unsafe feeder, rather than just personal opinion, I will gladly revise my stance. My frog has neurological issues that seem to affect her GI tract. However, I wouldn't recommend my restrictive and paranoid care routine to others, because it would be completely unnecessary for most frogs.

It is both unfair and inaccurate to compare feeding roaches to sub-par or uncaring husbandry, especially without any hard facts to back it up. Most of the people on this forum do not need someone to speak for their frogs, as they are already providing good care, and are willing to listen to others to keep improving it. Again, I am NOT criticizing your care routine. Just saying, there is no call for accusing everyone who feeds roaches of giving their animals sub-par food, when you have no actual evidence to support this.

[DeeDub]

Lol...isn't that the guy wanting to feed spaghetti to his frog?

Anyway, just feed nymphs to Rhino. She's just a little one still. The last roach I fed was about an inch. It didn't cause the impaction. I noticed the impaction as soon as she ate the roach.

BTW, she's doing well. Fed her a couple earth worm I cut in half. She was a hungry little monster too.

[DeeDub]

Just FYI hop, roaches are one of the most nutritious inverts you can feed. Anything you had to say lost all credibility when I read that you would give your frog a prune. Not to mentioned the spaghetti....lol

I dust with Miner-all and Vit-all. Some of the best supplements you can give to your pets.

[Sunshine]

Just FYI hop, roaches are one of the most nutritious inverts you can feed. Anything you had to say lost all credibility when I read that you would give your frog a prune. Not to mentioned the spaghetti....lol

LOL!!!

[Hoppity100]

Thanks for writing with your viewpoints. No, I'm not paranoid, never was. I'm writing about giving frogs food that contributes to the impaction process. No, just because popcorn bothers people with diverticulitis or osis does not mean you withhold it from children at the theatre. You're talking about it in a different way. Corn being a staple food may be true but it can be avoided and replaced with something else. It means that if you have that condition and you know this food has the potential to cause you distress, you avoid it. I take my own snacks to the theatre. Corn is eaten and digested thru chewing kernals. But I chew my food, frogs don't, they gulp food whole. I had a dog that died from eating food whole, ended up with an obstruction, had abd exploratory, suffered post-op, had long recovery, died from complications, long story. There is a difference between eating kernals of corn or an entire ear. Like I mentioned, what would happen to me if I ate an entire ear? With all the curves in our intestines and how they are tightly packed in our bellies, that ear of corn doesn't have a chance of passing.

I'm happy to read about these roaches, and what is the neurological problem with your frog? How did you discover it? After reading posts, I can see the people on the forum care about their pets. It shows interest and enthusiasm. The descriptions of set ups tell me what effort they put into their frogs' care. I have done the same. But, even though frogs need a variety of food, I consider things like: size of food, hard or soft, freshness, calcium dust or vitamin supplements, amount, type of insect, etc. I'm thinking these frogs would love flies except they would be difficult to house and catch.

As for husbandry: my frogs and husband have a different diet, husband chews his food and frogs don't. Husband complains and frogs don't. Husband gets softer food than frogs that eat roaches and crickets. Humans can judge before they eat, frogs can't. Frogs eat without too much thinking first, they don't debate their diet ahead of time. They eat when they see food. My stray cats do the same thing. No, I don't know why you thought I was paranoid. I guess I like things that are logical and reasonable. Roaches may have beneficial nutrients, that's not my debate, frogs do eat insects in the wild and some digest ok while others don't. If you read my collection of data/facts about my husband, you'd need to lie down. Well, you'd need a pitcher of maragritas first. Long story here, too.

I did not mean to be overly critical or demanding. I meant to bring this topic to the attention of other owners. Maybe they'd consider a different type of food or vitamin supplement. Especially the person who asked if they should keep their new frog in a cage or tank. This person should not have a frog if they have to ask that question. And, by looking at pictures of set ups: the tank or terrariums are decorated just fine, its the size of water dishes I see. I wonder if those pets have enough water, moisture, and humidity. A fogger is a great idea and anyone who goes to that trouble really cares. My tank will never need one. A terrarium should not need one if it is properly set up. A fogger I can see is especially beneficial in a household without a humidifier during winter months. Winter here can be so harsh that I already have a plan on what to do with my tank. I did not mean to elaborate so much. I tend to want to prevent accidents/hazards from happening. Oh, I have someone here who does not recognize himself in dangerous and risky situations. I have to for him. But, if you want, I am interested in knowing about your frog and his neurological problem and how you take precautions for him. Thanks for writing back with your ideas, both of our viewpoints can actually help people reading all this. Often things don't change unless someone speaks up. I tend to speak for all types of animals, it is the nature of me doing this, had pets all my life and helped other people save their pets. Have rescued pets too many times.