Need some help....Impaction

[DeeDub]

My little ornate has an impaction. His left side is bigger than his right and there are two distinguishable hard spots that I can palpate.

Please Help.

Heading to the store for pedialite right now. I dont know what to do other than a warm soak with Pedialite.

[Maharg]

How warm is your water for the warm bath?

[DeeDub]

Just got back, didnt make it yet was hoping there was a reply when I got returned home.

[DeeDub]

Soaking in the second warm bath. Passed a little fecal matter, the lump has moved to the right side as you can see

[DeeDub]

BTW, this is Rhino. Hope s/he makes it. You can see the two lumps on the left side. Big one on the right side. Three in all. All of them are pretty firm.

[MatthewM1]

You can also try a warm soaks with a couple drops of honey in it

[DeeDub]

Bump...no change this morning. He's soaking in His water dish.

[Hoppity100]

What did he eat and how much? Can you give him fiber powder mixed with drop of water in eye dropper? Also let him soak in warm water. I hope he is ok. That reminds me, I need to buy an eye dropper, have small syringe minus needle. Eye dropper would be for emergencies. Yeah, I'd try this for my frog. OOne reason why I don't give mine too large a cricket.

[Heatheranne]

Dubia roaches are actually really nutritious and much more than crickets. Crickets also pose impaction risks. The best thing to do is to vary their diet. A balanced diet will help to keep things moving through normally. Monitoring your frog, their feces, and their belly fullness can prevent many problems.

If your baby has a right sided belly lump, then he is full and needs to poop. It would be wise to not feed that day and wait for him to go. When we have full bellies we get bloated and crampy in which our body warns us we need to have a bowel movement. Not too many people would want to eat until resolved. Our pacs do the same, most of the time. Bad thing is, as predatory amphibians, movement of their food is when they strike so they may occasionally eat even when they're too full. I'm sure everyone already knows this, just thought I'd mention.

Roaches are fine to feed. Their "meat" to shell ratio is much higher than a cricket. Do dubias pose an impaction risk? Yep, but no more than a cricket. And if you're worried about constipation, then you can feed the freshly molted ones. They are soft and squishy .

My frogs' diets are rotated with crickets, dubias, and night crawlers. I gut load both the crickets and the dubias, and of course use mvi and calcium/vita D supplements. I also do weekly to biweekly honey soaks and regular soaks every couple days. I just set them in their water bowls. They often stay in for a bit and seem to like it.

You should start a random post about what people feed their pacs just to get some comparisons .

[Hoppity100]

Thanks for writing with your viewpoint. Yeah, the cricket thing is bothersome when I see the large boney ones with those folded up legs that resemble sticks. That is just as bad. I am not fond of giving mine crickets unless they are small and young. Whether roaches and crickets have nutrients is not what I question so much, its their size and structure. I would not offer someone peanut brittle if they had no teeth, likewise a ribeye steak. I don't see what's wrong with dusting roaches in fiber powder first, maybe that would help the frog. I'm still trying to help frogs/toads when they can't. Maybe their meat is good, no question, its their size, frogs can't chew like we can, shells would be slower to digest and have a better chance of impacting, constipating, blockage.

I don't eat food that is too big, too hard, or if I can't chew it first. People chew then swallow. Frogs just gulp and swallow. Even flies bred indoors seem more reasonable to give. I like your honey and soaking idea. When you have inactivity, curled up intestines like they are in our bellies, and something too big to fit, its like trying to squueze an idaho potato down your kitchen drain. I've had digestive complaints same as frogs and its not painful. I know to avoid it next time I eat. I still feel for a frog/toad that has to experience several days of cramping, pain, buldging abdomen. This is not fun.

[MatthewM1]

They may not chew or completely digest the chitin but it does get broken down in their digestive tract to an extent. It's not like they are passing a whole shell that looks like a roach with the insides sucked out of it

[Hoppity100]

Thanks for explaining, ...any parts of a shell I question though. I mean, I can't picture one being digested with any ease. Gosh, it must hurt to an extent being passed. Next time I swallow an eggplant or avocado whole, I'll let you know how I'm doing. Before I do that, I'll write first. I'm looking out for frogs, not telling anyone what to do, but to reconsider feeding these roaches. Roaches are normally so hard the only way to kill them is with a hammer,.. that's if you can catch them first. I ran over a roach once with my car and that thing kept crawling! I think they are the last bugs to survive a nuclear tragedy. They also resemble peanuts, actually too much. I still eat peanuts, but now that I think about it, a roach with salt would be too easy to mistake for a peanut. Gotta sign off and visit the pet store..I need a new gravel vac for my fish tank. Later...

[MatthewM1]

Frogs digestive tracks have adapted and evolved over thousands of years to digest whole prey, and ours have not. a human eating a whole avocado is nothing like a frog eating a whole roach. And from my understanding dubia exoskeletons are softer than many other species of roach

[DeeDub]

Thanks for explaining, ...any parts of a shell I question though. I mean, I can't picture one being digested with any ease. Gosh, it must hurt to an extent being passed. Next time I swallow an eggplant or avocado whole, I'll let you know how I'm doing. Before I do that, I'll write first. I'm looking out for frogs, not telling anyone what to do, but to reconsider feeding these roaches. Roaches are normally so hard the only way to kill them is with a hammer,.. that's if you can catch them first. I ran over a roach once with my car and that thing kept crawling! I think they are the last bugs to survive a nuclear tragedy. They also resemble peanuts, actually too much. I still eat peanuts, but now that I think about it, a roach with salt would be too easy to mistake for a peanut. Gotta sign off and visit the pet store..I need a new gravel vac for my fish tank. Later...

The whole idea of roaches or crickets being detrimental is moronic. Why are we even having this debate? These frogs are not fragile little creatures. They are super hearty and can deal with alot. That doesn't mean we test thier limits. I am all for babying them. I enjoy doing it. All of your "imagine me swallowing a water mellon, eggplant, corn cob" analogies have nothing to do with these frogs. Read what someone else is telling you. Maybe you will learn something. They are designed to eat prey that is large; they are designed to eat chitinous insects; they don't eat spagetti or prunes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BTW, who the h e l l kills roaches with a hammer? Have you ever seen a roach you idiot?

Hoppity, you are not qualified to give anyone advice. That is clearly evident in almost everything you post on any thread on this forum. You say you want to help other people. Stop giving subjective, nonobjective, illogical advice. I can't beleive the c r a p that I read on this forum that you have posted (that goes for the most part unanswered by those in the know). Your "Help" is one of the most detrimental things a new owner or potential owner could read. I don't know if you intentionally post things to be controversial (trolling) or are really just not very smart.

Bad husbandry practices getting propagated by blow hard, psuedo expert, internet cowboys like you are the biggest health risk to our captive frogs. Stop passing your B.S. conjecture to others. Why haven't the Mods taught this guy/girl some sense? Isn't that your role here? I know we need to be civil, cooperative, supportive, nice etc. but to what extent? If we are going to pick our battles to remain civil, then lets start with this issue. STOP LETTING PEOPLE GIVE OUT RETARDED ADVICE!!! You can't limit what people can say, just don't let them go on and on without a reply from you. PLEASE KEEP US ON TRACK! CORRECT POOR HUSBANDRY ADVICE GIVEN OUT BY OTHERS! I know that Husbandry practices vary, and that there will be some opinion related practices, but for the most part a little reminding nudge (slap) from the Mods in the right direction will solve most issues.

Now I digress....give me my punishment for injecting a little common sense into this 'debate' above...lol Or don't and realize that a little tough love can go a long way to reaching much needed clarity in a debate oriented, opinion riddled social media site such as this.

[Heatheranne]

Okay guys... Understandable, but lets try and keep it polite.

Hoppity, these frogs, like others, and even ourselves, produce enzymes and acids for digestion which break down parts of their food. Try dumping hydrochloride acid on foods and see what happens. The shells of roaches can easily be broken. Their backs are fairly soft except in the elder roaches, who have a bit tougher shell. The juveniles are quite squooshy in fact. Either way, roaches are actually not as hard to digest as you think and are quite healthy for them.

Deedub, I understand your concerns and see that you do have good education of your frogs and their health. Please share your education pleasantly. I feel your frustrations, though we wish to keep our forum friendly. Teach vs. reprimand...

Thanks!

[DeeDub]

Okay guys... Understandable, but lets try and keep it polite.

Hoppity, these frogs, like others, and even ourselves, produce enzymes and acids for digestion which break down parts of their food. Try dumping hydrochloride acid on foods and see what happens. The shells of roaches can easily be broken. Their backs are fairly soft except in the elder roaches, who have a bit tougher shell. The juveniles are quite squooshy in fact. Either way, roaches are actually not as hard to digest as you think and are quite healthy for them.

Deedub, I understand your concerns and see that you do have good education of your frogs and their health. Please share your education pleasantly. I feel your frustrations, though we wish to keep our forum friendly. Teach vs. reprimand...

Thanks!

WILCO, thanks.

[Heatheranne]

When the frog passes feces it is coated in a soft, slimy mucous like coating, like most animals. The excrement at that point is soft and any undigested particles are mixed within the soft stool, making it easy to pass.

Yes....I am very aware as I am also a med/surg nurse and deal with similar human issues nearly everyday.

Varying the diet creates the best 'consistency' of stool and provides the best nutrients.

[Heatheranne]

I only find the head cover as well, which, if concerned, easily comes off.

[Heatheranne]

I am now going to close this thread.

I'd like to add that the soaks should be no warmer than just a bit over luke warm or lightly warm to the touch and the water temps should not be rapidly cooled or warmed. It is safer to slowly warm or cool cold blooded animals as they lack the ability to adjust their own temps to compensate.

Have a great day guys! Please keep it polite....it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.