Need some help....Impaction

[trkyhntr]

looks like he punched out a Grumpy

[DeeDub]

All I know is in the middle of the night I heard "Whooop....Whooop {siren sound}...We've reached DEFCON 5, NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BEGUN, SHES ABOUT TO RELEASE A CHOCOLATE HOSTAGE".... Then I woke up and found that little beauty.

She actually pushed out two about that size.

Minimal coco fiber in it, I think maybe I over fed on the roaches. I'm going to change to 1 earth worm a day, and a roach with worm every third. Pinky once a month.

FYI, I could see the lumps move down the left side of the frog (left side from frogs perspective) into the pelvis and back to the vent. This morning I couldn't see the large bulge (roach like I thought) on the right. So the last tract of intestine before the vent is on the left side of this frog.

[Hoppity100]

What did he eat and how much? Can you give him fiber powder mixed with drop of water in eye dropper? Also let him soak in warm water. I hope he is ok. That reminds me, I need to buy an eye dropper, have small syringe minus needle. Eye dropper would be for emergencies. Yeah, I'd try this for my frog. OOne reason why I don't give mine too large a cricket.

[Hoppity100]

I don't think feeding roaches is obviously a good idea since they must have a shell. Sprinkle fiber powder on their food, don't feed roaches. Then frog would not have to suffer with ANY impaction or bowel obstruction. I don't see good judgement here. Can't help but get my 2 cents worth about something that could have been prevented.

[Hoppity100]

I have the same frogs and mine adapted to tank temp fine. I would NEVER make their temp over 80 degrees. Are you trying to cook them? Mine arrived at the store in lower temp, they have the ability to adapt. Store does not keep them at 80 degrees either.

[Hoppity100]

I feel bad for your frog, he is suffering from eating a roach. Roaches with any shell are TOO BIG for getting thru intestines. Why can't anyone figure this out?

[Hoppity100]

Gee, pushing and adding frog more pain does not sound good either. Stop feeding roaches...switch to worms. Then frog won't have to have a near death painful experience! AKA bowel obstruction

[GrifTheGreat]

All I know is in the middle of the night I heard "Whooop....Whooop {siren sound}...We've reached DEFCON 5, NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BEGUN, SHES ABOUT TO RELEASE A CHOCOLATE HOSTAGE".... Then I woke up and found that little beauty.

She actually pushed out two about that size.

Minimal coco fiber in it, I think maybe I over fed on the roaches. I'm going to change to 1 earth worm a day, and a roach with worm every third. Pinky once a month.

FYI, I could see the lumps move down the left side of the frog (left side from frogs perspective) into the pelvis and back to the vent. This morning I couldn't see the large bulge (roach like I thought) on the right. So the last tract of intestine before the vent is on the left side of this frog.

Yep, it's a loop. Swings out past the stomach on the right and then loops to their left. You will always notice though that when they need to have a bowel movement the feces will begin on the right side. You can actually feel it move when you massage the lump on the right side and then it will move to the left just before the release it. Its actually kind of cool how you can see their intestines at work.

FYI, Deedub if you're feeding adult roaches to the frog then that is why he became impacted. They take a while to digest as adults because their exoskeleton is fully developed. Anytime I've fed adult roaches to mine they took alot longer to have a bowel movement.

[Hoppity100]

How big is the roach? How big are the frog's intestines? That's what I thought...roach is bigger. Good grief....

[GrifTheGreat]

Gee, pushing and adding frog more pain does not sound good either. Stop feeding roaches...switch to worms. Then frog won't have to have a near death painful experience! AKA bowel obstruction

Lol! Hoppity, You can't place fiber powder on their food, but Fluker's Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost) for dehydrated and malnourished reptiles and amphibians can be used to assist in keeping the frog regular with it's bowel movements. This emergency supplement contains alot of fiber and thus can provide what is needed to help the frog, but like all supplements can be overdosed on so it is best to only use it occasionally or only in an emergency.

There is no need to keep posting negative comments. Deedub has done nothing wrong and is not causing his frog pain. When they are impacted to the point in which it will cause death the frog will swell up before the intestines burst. It's time to leave it be and he has already stated that he is going to switch to worms.

Let it be. Thank you.

[Pluke]

I thought it was OK to feed dubias? That big brown I got back LOVES them.. finally, I have a frog that will chow them down without question. Of course, she hasn't ate any adult roaches, but the big ones before adult stage. Should I refrain? She only gets like 1 or 2 a feeding with a couple big nightcrawlers and pacman food.. this girl will eat as much as I give her, it's nice not having a picky eater for once, lol.

[GrifTheGreat]

I thought it was OK to feed dubias? That big brown I got back LOVES them.. finally, I have a frog that will chow them down without question. Of course, she hasn't ate any adult roaches, but the big ones before adult stage. Should I refrain? She only gets like 1 or 2 a feeding with a couple big nightcrawlers and pacman food.. this girl will eat as much as I give her, it's nice not having a picky eater for once, lol.

Its ok, but sometimes the adult roaches kind of constipate the frog.

[Hoppity100]

Please don't feed roaches. Think of the size of the frog's intestines. What are the digestive enzymes a frog has?

[Hoppity100]

You don't see my point: why wait until the frog has swelled up and is in pain in the first place? It does not make sense to me to feed roaches, an impaction from insects could be prevented. I think of my frogs alot and will never give them roaches. If I am negative it is because this could have been prevented, same as a frog death. I don't think its nice to cause a frog to be impacted then notice it later after frog has been hurting. I know impactions then bowel obstruction do not feel good. I know there is not a small enough NG tube out there or a vet to do surgery. I am thankful he switched to worms, mine basically get worms with small crickets as an occasional treat. I even wonder about those! Thanks for writing.

[DVirginiana]

You don't see my point: why wait until the frog has swelled up and is in pain in the first place? It does not make sense to me to feed roaches, an impaction from insects could be prevented. I think of my frogs alot and will never give them roaches. If I am negative it is because this could have been prevented, same as a frog death. I don't think its nice to cause a frog to be impacted then notice it later after frog has been hurting. I know impactions then bowel obstruction do not feel good. I know there is not a small enough NG tube out there or a vet to do surgery. I am thankful he switched to worms, mine basically get worms with small crickets as an occasional treat. I even wonder about those! Thanks for writing.

Chill out. This isn't a case of anyone being stupid or mistreating their pet. Dubia roaches are some of the most common feeders people use for pacs. Some frogs are just more sensitive to what is in their diet than others, with nightcrawlers being the best option for frogs prone to impaction. DeeDub has been pretty much going by the book; his frog just had a problem. Most of them face impaction at some point, and it's not necessarily anything the owner did. It's just a very common problem in pacs.

I have the same frogs and mine adapted to tank temp fine. I would NEVER make their temp over 80 degrees. Are you trying to cook them? Mine arrived at the store in lower temp, they have the ability to adapt. Store does not keep them at 80 degrees either.

80-85 degrees is ideal for daytime temps. Read the forum caresheet. Petstores consistently under-heat and under-mist their tropical reptiles.

Please don't feed roaches. Think of the size of the frog's intestines. What are the digestive enzymes a frog has?

It's not the size of the frog's intestines, it's the chitin content of the prey. Chitin does not digest. Think about it; when was the last time your frog passed an entire cricket? You typically see the chitinous parts of prey broken up in the poo. If a frog gets too much of this, it doesn't matter if it is from a large roach or several small roaches at once, that is what causes the problem. If it fits in the space between the eyes, that's a good rule of thumb for appropriately sized prey.

[Hoppity100]

Then why feed them something that contains chitin? I'm sticking with worms, no roaches here. I'm trying to help any frog who has to go thru needless impaction. No, my frogs got small young crickets. Does this particular roach have a shell? How big is it? If wider than space between frog eyes and with shell, I view it as not a good idea regardless of who owns the frog. If impaction is that common and they're that sensitive, it would be better to feed them something else. Or, gee, remove shell from roach. This would be like me swallowing a whole ear of corn, with the husk. I'd get impacted then have a bowel obstruction, then die. Can't imagine the pain. No one can determine which frog is sensitive, that's an easy answer to excuse feeding a roach. Sorry, but I don't get the roach idea at all. Thanks for writing though.

[Pluke]

Roaches don't have shells and have very little chitin.. impaction is rarely caused by them if ever. I have never heard of someones animal getting impacted from one. They're a huge staple in a ton of animals diets, frogs included, People use them because they're much healthier than crickets and a lot easier to breed/raise, making them cheaper than worms. Grif said an adult "can constipate" a frog, not impact it. Impactions are much much worse and can kill, I have never heard of a roach ever killing a frog because it couldn't digest it.

[Hoppity100]

Roaches have shells and with chitin...I may have two different stories about what roaches contain and whether they're digestible or not. Gee, does size have anything to do with it? Maybe people use them because they're cheaper to breed and house. I am concerned about crickets, my FB's only get small crickets and not all the time. The stores don't sell roaches and I would not buy them anyway. My frogs eat worms fine so I will rotate them. What is the difference between constipation and impaction to you? They're actually so similar that one is not better or easier than the other. I'd be dusting roaches with vitamin/calcium powder plus fiber powder. Either that, or dangle a piece of a prune in front of frog. Frogs eat insects when they are presented, frogs can't talk or complain (like my husband) they eat when food is offered, they don't know they have a choice if one is offered. My stray cats eat what I offer, they don't know when their next meal is. I feed them canned food with chicken or tuna. No wonder they keep coming every night. But, it seems like worms are safest for frogs/toads. Anything soft in the bug family. Forgot to mention: constipation can and often does lead to impaction easily, impaction is painful and can lead to bowel obstruction or potential perforation. Combine this with inactivity and well, it just gets worse. Just looking out for the frog.

[DVirginiana]

Roaches have shells and with chitin...I may have two different stories about what roaches contain and whether they're digestible or not. Gee, does size have anything to do with it? Maybe people use them because they're cheaper to breed and house. I am concerned about crickets, my FB's only get small crickets and not all the time. The stores don't sell roaches and I would not buy them anyway. My frogs eat worms fine so I will rotate them. What is the difference between constipation and impaction to you? They're actually so similar that one is not better or easier than the other. I'd be dusting roaches with vitamin/calcium powder plus fiber powder. Either that, or dangle a piece of a prune in front of frog. Frogs eat insects when they are presented, frogs can't talk or complain (like my husband) they eat when food is offered, they don't know they have a choice if one is offered. My stray cats eat what I offer, they don't know when their next meal is. I feed them canned food with chicken or tuna. No wonder they keep coming every night. But, it seems like worms are safest for frogs/toads. Anything soft in the bug family. Forgot to mention: constipation can and often does lead to impaction easily, impaction is painful and can lead to bowel obstruction or potential perforation. Combine this with inactivity and well, it just gets worse. Just looking out for the frog.

What do you think pacs eat in the wild? Mostly insects, occasionally small mammals or other frogs. Rarely worms. Their systems are evolved to eat this sort of prey. ALL insects have a chitinous exoskeleton (not a shell), even your crickets. With the exception of removing wings or legs, this cannot be removed. The roaches are not cheaper or easier to house than nightcrawlers; people use them because they are safe feeders, especially if the owner is watching for problems like this one. A frog should be watched for signs of impaction even if it's on the safest possible diet.

The difference between constipation and impaction is the same as it is in a human. One is an inconvenience and the other is a serious medical condition.

Saying that someone is being irresponsible by feeding roaches because they don't know how sensitive their frogs digestive system is is like saying that everyone should eat gluten free products because they don't know if they are allergic or not. Frogs that are too sensitive to eat roaches are the abnormality; most are fine. In fact, this frog is probably not that sensitive. Like I said, this is a very common problem for pacs.
Your feeding style is not wrong, but that doesn't mean that everyone else's is incorrect. There are some dietary red flags to watch out for, but dubia roaches aren't one of them.

[Hoppity100]

True, they eat insects in the wild because animals don't know when next meal is coming. Yes, constipation is slowed and difficult movement. Impaction can be life threatening if its not moved properly thru GI tract, especially made worse with type/size of food and inactivity. How does someone conclude a frog is "sensitive?" If I eat tons of popcorn, have severe LLQ pain for several days and can't move, am I just sensitive or could I have diverticulosis? or an impaction? what if I had a localized mass with infection/abscess? gangrene? perforation? You can't tell exactly how frog feels nor should frog suffer ( can tell if it dies and autopsy is done). What I am saying is, why take the risk when owners have a choice that won't even come close to causing an impaction? Many people are sensitive to foods and they have the option of choosing different food. A frog in captivity doesn't. I'm not crazy about giving mine crickets, but they gobble the small ones which look much better than the large boney ones. Its like giving a dog rawhide made in China. This causes all kinds of havoc. Dogs don't know any better, people should though.

Gluten and allergy are not the same thing as impaction. I am not trying to make someone feel bad, but felt an impaction and a sick or ill frog warrant talking about what it is fed. I understand your point and I hope that person can offer different food. I can't imagine certain insects getting thru a frog's GI tract safely. Some do die in the wild from eating the wrong bug. But, as pets it makes sense to me to give food that is as safe as possible. I'm speaking on behalf of frogs since they cannot speak. I've got to go to bed, otherwise I'll be up typing all night. Tomorrow I can try to read about frog digestive systems and enzymes they have. I have fiber powder in case mine look bloated or have signs of not feeling well. Hope what I wrote helped.