He's a year old, but barely grown at all

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks for the reply Grif. I respect that this is off topic and sorry for that, but it would be out of context now if I reply to the other thread. I just read the pacman food "just add water" thread and it was covered there.

To reply to what you just said; Is the hard evidence dead frogs? Ren put it in pretty clear terms based on the physiology of the frogs, as well as the known detrimental effects of some of the ingredients based on the biological makeup and capability of the digestive tract. It hasn't been scientifically proven either way, I guess that is lacking in hard evidence. Just seems like a unhealthy way to 'power feed' the frogs. I'll stick with whole prey items, even for treats and not conduct that test.

I would love for this to be a legitimate staple diet, but won't put my frogs at risk for convenience. From a breeder standpoint, considering the bottom line and running a business, it ultimately makes perfect sense to use this stuff. The frogs are a business investment and the quicker you can get them to breeding condition the better. I understand and respect that. P. Vasjoli talks about this some in his books. Breeders have to look at thier frogs differently. You can't afford to treat them as pets.

As this was offered as advice to the OP as a diet for the small frog, it is on topic. Unfortunately I don't have anything to offer that hasn't already been said. You guys covered it.

Well i guess it is a little bit on and off topic so it should be allowed.

There are many things that are bad in large quantities. Vitamins for example can create vitamin specific toxicity in the frog's body from overdosing and this can kill the frog. Too much of a good thing is just as bad or worse than not enough. Like i said i use it as a treat and the ingredients act as a sort of steroid. When fed this food the frog noticibly grow rapidly, but i have had a couple grow just as fast with a varied diet and proper supplementation as well as gut loading the feeders. I'm not saying that the member of the other forum is right or wrong and would like to see an actual study done showing the long term effects of this food on frogs that are fed only this as a food source. I'm certain the results would surprise all of us.

No need to appologize though. I just dont want any heated arguments to begin.

[DeeDub]

I agree. No heat from this end....lol. thanks!

One question: could this be a c. Josierensis? They stay pretty small from what Ive read.

[GrifTheGreat]

I agree. No heat from this end....lol. thanks!

One question: could this be a c. Josierensis? They stay pretty small from what Ive read.

No, I have a pair of joazeirensis and my male is 3.5" and my female is a solid 4". Both are the same age and neither are near a year of age. You're thinking of C. Stolzmani. The males only reach about 2.5" and females 3 " to 3.5".

[BuckeyeHerp]

" Distilled water is basically water with nothing else in it. That means that there are no dissolved salts and minerals. This is a type of water that a wild animal would never be exposed to. All water found in nature has some salt and minerals dissolved in it, and this is important for something called osmotic regulation. Suffice it to say that this term means how water passes in and out of cells and is regulated, in part,by the dissolved solids in the water. Water routinely passes in and out of cells, which is how the body regulates almost all bodily functions. So dissolved minerals and salts are very important for normal physiological functions. Distilled water, with no dissolved salts and minerals, cannot support those normal bodily functions.That is why your frogblew up from absorbing water because there was nothing in that water to prevent absorption" Dr. Margaret A. Wissman, DVM, DABVP I will add a Dart frog terrarium has a layer of hydroballs(clay) that mixed with distilled water creates mineral water.