R.I.P. Billy...Advice Please?

[RoninSTi]

Hey everyone,

Unfortunately my baby pacman died today. He hasn't been eating for about 3 weeks...and this morning he was shriveled up and rigor mortis.

I'm going to get a new one, I just wanted to run my setup by you guys and make sure I didn't do anything wrong.

I had a 10g tank, with a UTH on the side. I used eco earth for a substrate, there was about 2" or so in there. He had a shallow water dish, which I used filtered water. He was never handled. I fed him dubias and supers dusted with calcium when he was eating. I also had a 50w Red heat lamp for when the temps got low. I monitored temp on the surface of his substrate and kept it at about 80 degrees. I misted his tank 3x a day.

I got him from a show so no returns. By everything I listed above did it sound like I did anything wrong? I did a lot of research before I got him and I just want make sure that it's not anything I did to kill him.

Thanks for your input.

[John]

What was the temperature in the substrate - with all those heat sources around, I'm worried it was too warm. Also, did you keep the humidity high? These frogs don't do well when it's dry.

[RoninSTi]

I don't know the temp IN the substrate. His tank is still setup, so I know I can find out. the temp was 80 on the surface. Again the UTH was on the side, and the lamp was only used when it got really cold here (In New England). I used moist coco fiber and misted 3x a day so I know it was pretty moist in there.

Should I try and get a measure INSIDE the subs?

[Socrates]

There's a few possibilities I can think of that caused your frog to perish. It is possible that the pH of your substrate is off (either to acidic or basic). You could perform simple pH test with the appropriate soil kit.

Another possibility is that you accidentally "cooked" him, many people usually over heat Tropical species of amphibians thinking that it's extremely hot and humid (which of course is not true). In reality the temperature of the forest floor in tropical rain forest is usually much cooler than one would think (usually in the 70's, hot air rises, cold air sinks. Plus much sunlight never reaches the forest floor). I would recommend low 80's at the highest for max temp, with upper 70's being ideal and high 60's-70 at night.

Your moisture/humidity sounds just fine, so no need to change that.

Last thought is you said you fed him supers? (I'm assuming that means super worms?) If that is the case, DO NOT feed super worms or meal worms! They can still maintain there ability to use their mandibles, especially in amphibians because they aren't chewing the arthropod to kill it completely. Plus, even with humans there has been incidences were individuals ate meal worms that they hadn't chewed properly and the meal worm ate a whole through there stomach wall. I would therefore stick to young crickets (gut-loaded of course), phoenix worms, silk worms and horn worms (the two later, b/c they have a very close 2:1 Ca - P ratio). Calcium is important in the Ceratophrys genus, this is because of their fast growth rate. IF they have inadequate levels that can develop jaw abnormalities or rickets (juvenile brittle bone disease) like syndromes.

Hope this helps! And sorry for the loss of your frog!

[RoninSTi]

Thanks so much for your input. I'll will test the pH prior to obtaining another pet. What should the ideal pH be? I don't think I "cooked" him, as 80 was definitely the highest the temperature ever was, but it may be a possibility. It's nice to know that upper 70's is really ideal.

I'll remove the super worms from the diet and stick to the dubias. I'll also try to get some silk and/or horn worms. I use progecko gutload as my gutload. Here is the link to the ingredients for that:

Ingredients:
Sun-grown grains, ground corn, wheat middlings, dehulled soybean meal, safflower, dehydrated alfalfa meal, ground wheat, ground rice hulls, molasses, canola meal, rice bran, marigold extract, various seeds and greens, calcium supplement, vitamin/mineral supplement and more.

Analysis

Dry Tested

Wet Tested

Crude Protein

20.90%

19.38%

Crude Fat

5.16%

4.78%

Fiber

14.20%

13.16%

HFE (Carbohydrates)

50.22%

46.56%

Total Carbohydrates

64.42%

59.72%

Moisture

0.00%

7.30%

TDN

85.91%

79.64%

Ash

9.53%

8.83%

Calcium

1.70%

1.58%

Phosphorus

0.70%

0.65%

Potassium

0.82%

0.76%

Magnesium

0.26%

0.24%

Sodium

0.17%

0.16%

Sulfur

0.20%

0.19%

Nitrogen

3.34%

3.10%

Iron

440 PPM

408 PPM

Aluminum

232 PPM

215 PPM

Manganese

105 PPM

97 PPM

Copper

13 PPM

12 PPM

Zinc

107 PPM

99 PPM

[Kurt]

Before I would get a new frog, I would toss the old substrate and clean everything else with a bleach and water solution, rinse thoroughly before reusing. How long did you have the frog? Maybe it was sick to begin with.
Where in New England are you? I am in Massachusetts and a director at the New England Herpetological Society, which meets this Sunday at the NEWC in South Weymouth. You are welcome to come by.

[RoninSTi]

I had him since January 24th...so not too long. I also planned on thoroughly cleaning everything just in case something in the tank got him.


I would love to be involved in the herpetological society. I live in CT close to New Haven. You don't happen to know Chuck Annicelli do you? I think he's involved in that society. He works with my wife and is a friend.

[Socrates]

Looks good for the gutload, and I would have the pH around neutral (~7+/- 0.2). Good luck.

[RoninSTi]

Thanks everyone for your input. I'll post pics of my new little guy...I was so fond of billy, it's sad he's not going to be there when I get home.

[Kurt]

Sorry, I don't know Chuck Annicelli by name, but that doesn't mean I don't know his face. There a lot of people in the NEHS that I have known for years by face only.