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Thread: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

  1. #1
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Hi,
    Wondering what FF members think?
    Re:
    fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier above hydro ( see link below)

    Substrate Barrier - Substrate Barrier | Josh's Frogs

    Aslo, has anyone any experience with this product? Used with hydroponic gardening. Very cool!

    GENERAL HYDROPONICS: CocoTek

    GENERAL HYDROPONICS: CocoTek Liners

    It is available in pots, block and mats.

    GENERAL HYDROPONICS: CocoTek Mats

    "Made from natural coconut fibers and bound by organic latex, CocoTek® Mats are designed to lie underneath media containers and can be easily cut to any size. In ebb and flow tables, plant roots will grow through and under the Mats where moisture remains between flood cycles."

    I wondering what "organic latex" is ?

    Thanks, Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

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  3. #2
    Beachfroggy
    Guest

    Default

    "Natural" or "synthetic" latex would be the actual distinction if there was one. One rubber substance is derived from plant or tree sources and the other from petroleum type products There is no true "organic latex" because no certification of latex exists as to 100% organic components. Recognized Boards certify "organic" and none certify latex as of yet. As long as "latex" is okay for the enclosure the labeling is meaningless. It is false advertising.

  4. #3

    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    I've never used the stuff from Josh's that you've linked too but always preferred a fabric product to the fiberglass screen. It folds around corners easily, never has any sharp pokey bits, much nicer to cut and work with, and you can easily line not only the hydroton layer but also fold it to go an inch or so up the glass (however deep your substrate is) to hold the substrate in better.

    It comes in a few varieties. The kind I use is more on the flimsy fabric side compared to some of the plasticy feeling heavier duty stuff used in landscaping especially where you'll have foot traffic. The flimsy fabric kind is more than durable enough for a vivarium as it likely won't be subject to a human foot.

    You can get small rolls at the dollar store and some garden centres will sell it from large rolls cut to the length you want for pretty cheap. Home Depot and other stores will also have rolls of it that are reasonably priced for what is likely a lifetime supply for the vivarium maker.

  5. #4
    ToadPaparazzi
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    Default

    I prefer fiberglass screen. It drains very well and is cheap.

  6. #5
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Beachfroggy View Post
    "Natural" or "synthetic" latex would be the actual distinction if there was one. One rubber substance is derived from plant or tree sources and the other from petroleum type products There is no true "organic latex" because no certification of latex exists as to 100% organic components. Recognized Boards certify "organic" and none certify latex as of yet. As long as "latex" is okay for the enclosure the labeling is meaningless. It is false advertising.
    My thoughts as well , it is ...... very confusing advertise.
    Thanks for your thoughts on this.
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  7. #6
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleChester View Post
    I've never used the stuff from Josh's that you've linked too but always preferred a fabric product to the fiberglass screen. It folds around corners easily, never has any sharp pokey bits, much nicer to cut and work with, and you can easily line not only the hydroton layer but also fold it to go an inch or so up the glass (however deep your substrate is) to hold the substrate in better.

    It comes in a few varieties. The kind I use is more on the flimsy fabric side compared to some of the plasticy feeling heavier duty stuff used in landscaping especially where you'll have foot traffic. The flimsy fabric kind is more than durable enough for a vivarium as it likely won't be subject to a human foot.

    You can get small rolls at the dollar store and some garden centres will sell it from large rolls cut to the length you want for pretty cheap. Home Depot and other stores will also have rolls of it that are reasonably priced for what is likely a lifetime supply for the vivarium maker.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToadPaparazzi View Post
    I prefer fiberglass screen. It drains very well and is cheap.

    Thanks Brian and Christian,
    I am at a complete stand still................deciding which product to use
    I didn't like the fabric at first, then realized once it gets wet it drains really nicely.
    It may have the advantage of not letting any silt through?

    Good grief! I'm ridiculous about these things!
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member MikeM670's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    I have used both and actually prefer the fabric to the plastic screen.
    1.2.0 Dendrobates tinctorius 'Azureus'
    1.1.0 Dendrobates Lamasi 'Orange'
    1.1.0 Dendrobates Ventrimaculatus 'Understory Line'
    0.3.0 Dendrobates leucomelas

    --------------------------------------------------
    As always your mileage may vary!
    I may or may not know what I'm talking about!

  9. #8
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM670 View Post
    I have used both and actually prefer the fabric to the plastic screen.
    Thanks Mike,
    So far I am leaning that way.
    It's in......... and the corners folded easily , like Brian mentioned.
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  10. #9

    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    definitely the fabric for me. keeps the silt and muck out of my water reservoir. still have my eye on that cocotek mat though Lynn
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  11. #10
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Quote Originally Posted by deranged chipmunk View Post
    definitely the fabric for me. keeps the silt and muck out of my water reservoir. still have my eye on that cocotek mat though Lynn

    I have to give the supplier a call.
    I want to know more information about the "organic latex".
    What ever that is ??????
    Would be great for epiphytes .....for sure!
    I have a pc set aside for you.
    I will bring it to the show.
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  12. #11
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    I thought I would revive this tread, and share a recent experience.
    I am officially done building 3 dart enclosures simultaneously.
    I babied ,wonderful, plant cuttings John Clare generously shared at the Hamburg show!

    I completed the enclosures( finished about two weeks) using hydro, substrate fabric ( if you are interested in where I purchased this--- please PM me) and pounds and pounds of ABG. I seeded them w/ the spring tails and isopods that I started weeks ago. I held off on extending my Mist King so I could pay close attention to the needs of each newly planted little treasure I have collected for months.

    I drove my self crazy during the time I was deciding as to which substrate barrier to use.
    My final decision was fabric.

    BUT- trouble started immediately.
    For 2 weeks I watched the obvious problem of very poor drainage occurring( because of the fabric ? ) , despite the added expense of having a drain hole drilled in each of my newly purchased exo enclosures.

    I ripped ALL 3 enclosures apart yesterday. Carefully pulling every plant! Only to find my suspicion to be correct.
    The water was sitting on top of the fabric- yet the hydro layer had only a little water, despite lots and lots of hand misting to care for the plants?

    I re-build all three yesterday. I changed to the following : (from the bottom up)
    1-hydro
    2-filter media ( 100% polyester) 3/4 " thick
    3-fiberglass screen
    4-ABG

    Overnight, ( I hand misted twice yesterday ) the hydro layer is completely full!!! In, fact 2 of the 3 tanks have drained some.
    Yikes ! This could have been a real disaster !


    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  13. #12

    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Wow lynn, good thing you caught that. You're newly acquired babies would have all started to "inexplicably " rot away. Guess you picked up an extremely tight weave landscaping fabric. screen will work better since you are not working with a pump. Good luck and keep us updated!!
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  14. #13

    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    I'm really sorry to hear that Lynn. This is not a problem I've ever had, and I've used a few different kinds inside vivariums and also for their original purpose. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of fabric you tried, was it plastic or fabric like? If you stretch a piece out and pour water on it, does the water just sit on it or eventually drain?

  15. #14
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Oh wow :/. I'm glad you shared this with us. How disappointing .

    I use the fiberglass mesh/screen over eggcrate with PVC elbows underneath. It worked well for my large vivarium. I still have to start my dart viv, but I want the large exo.
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  16. #15
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Quote Originally Posted by UncleChester View Post
    I'm really sorry to hear that Lynn. This is not a problem I've ever had, and I've used a few different kinds inside vivariums and also for their original purpose. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of fabric you tried, was it plastic or fabric like? If you stretch a piece out and pour water on it, does the water just sit on it or eventually drain?
    Hi Brian,
    It sits on top and takes forever and forever to drain.
    I folded the sides up about 1/2" which did not help.
    So, I think as a result it just sat there.
    It was draining through so slowly the hyrdo had very little water which is what caught my attention.

    It is different then the landscape fabric you had suggested I use. It is a much tighter weave.

    Looks good now ! Draining beautifully
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  17. #16
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Quote Originally Posted by flybyferns View Post
    I thought I would revive this tread, and share a recent experience.
    I am officially done building 3 dart enclosures simultaneously.
    I babied ,wonderful, plant cuttings John Clare generously shared at the Hamburg show!

    I completed the enclosures( finished about two weeks) using hydro, substrate fabric ( if you are interested in where I purchased this--- please PM me) and pounds and pounds of ABG. I seeded them w/ the spring tails and isopods that I started weeks ago. I held off on extending my Mist King so I could pay close attention to the needs of each newly planted little treasure I have collected for months.

    I drove my self crazy during the time I was deciding as to which substrate barrier to use.
    My final decision was fabric.

    BUT- trouble started immediately.
    For 2 weeks I watched the obvious problem of very poor drainage occurring( because of the fabric ? ) , despite the added expense of having a drain hole drilled in each of my newly purchased exo enclosures.

    I ripped ALL 3 enclosures apart yesterday. Carefully pulling every plant! Only to find my suspicion to be correct.
    The water was sitting on top of the fabric- yet the hydro layer had only a little water, despite lots and lots of hand misting to care for the plants?

    I re-build all three yesterday. I changed to the following : (from the bottom up)
    1-hydro
    2-filter media ( 100% polyester) 3/4 " thick
    3-fiberglass screen
    4-ABG

    Overnight, ( I hand misted twice yesterday ) the hydro layer is completely full!!! In, fact 2 of the 3 tanks have drained some.
    Yikes ! This could have been a real disaster !


    Lynn
    I am reviving this thread - yet again. I want to share this up-date

    I've been planning to update this because the polyester substrate layer is not typically used.
    It was not my idea. I saw it used at a herp shop here on Long Island. But, they were mean and would not share any information w/ me. They were selling small pcs 18 x18” for around 15$. Ha ! I have sewn for a zillion years. I knew exactly what it was.

    It is 100 % polyester batting (not cotton ) used by quilters. It’s the stuff used between the layers of fabric to make a quilt ‘puffy’. It is purchased by bed size. I purchased a ---roll ¾” thick ---single bed size--- for about 20$. I have a lot left over if anyone would like to try it; I’m happy to share. It is very similar to the filter medium in an aquarium filter. ( not the foam stuff)

    The layers are as follows—from the bottom up:
    1-hydro
    2-filter media ( 100% polyester quilting batting- 3/4 " thick)
    3-fiberglass screen
    4-ABG

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    I'm quite pleased with it. I put these three dart enclosures together in the very beginning of Nov 2012. The plants are flourishing, it smells great (clean and sweet), and it drains down through the batting beautifully. As you can see by these photos taken today—it’s still white. No ABG has gotten through it at all.

    These three tanks are drilled---just below the hydro layer and fitted with 5/8" tubing that drains into a bucket when the water reaches that point.

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    I use a mist king that sprays every three hours for 12 seconds. Therefore, there is a consistent flow of clean water. Even the water in the bucket smells fine. The 36" tank has 2 single mist heads and the two 18 " have one single each. The bucket collects ( from all three tanks ) much less then one might expect. I dump out 2 " of water a week. Obviously, the drainage speed is dependent on several things......... but maybe, just maybe I struck a nice balance.

    even the moss is happy !
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    say hello !
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    I think what I might do differently next time is NOT use the hydro. I would consider using gravel instead. I have kept fish tanks for many years . I think the gravel would be more effective in maintaining a better biological filter area because of all of the little edges.

    A Happy and Healthy New Year.....to all ! Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  18. #17

    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    I've only been built three PDF tanks and have only used fiberglass screen between the hydroton and ABG soil. So far no problems except that I've learned to double up with screen at the edges next to the glass. It helps to keep the soil from slipping past and getting into the hydro layer.

  19. #18

    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Lynn, i just saw this. i think the hydroton would actually be more beneficial to the biological filter. they may be smooth and round, but i think it's what we can't see that makes the difference. i would venture a guess to say that it really isn't as smooth as we think. i believe they are covered with microscopic holes from air pockets in the clay as it was being dried. leaving a really nice amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on. not as smooth as the rock would be. i know microscopically, the rock would be textured as well, i just think the clay would beat it out.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  20. #19
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    Quote Originally Posted by deranged chipmunk View Post
    Lynn, i just saw this. i think the hydroton would actually be more beneficial to the biological filter. they may be smooth and round, but i think it's what we can't see that makes the difference. i would venture a guess to say that it really isn't as smooth as we think. i believe they are covered with microscopic holes from air pockets in the clay as it was being dried. leaving a really nice amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on. not as smooth as the rock would be. i know microscopically, the rock would be textured as well, i just think the clay would beat it out.
    Yes, I'm sure your right! Like our aquariums , it's what ends up in there that matters.
    I have not replaced a sponge filter in my 2 fluval 405 in 5 years. I just rinse ! Think of all those $10 dollar bills I saved !
    I have a 9 year old Discus spawning ( right now ) once every 2 weeks .

    The male I have is too young. I lost her mate after the hurricane The girls try ?.................. It's hormonal mayhem !!!!!
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  21. #20
    deeishealthy
    Guest

    Default Re: fiberglass screen vs fabric type barrier

    I'm wondering if I should put hydroton under my false bottom for bacteria reasons. hmm

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