Favorite food for frogs

[Hoppity100]

I have 2 new fire belly frogs and read about their diet. I bought meal worms and crickets today. Already gave crickets finely shredded carrots and fruit, plus oatmeal. They are so small I tried to make their container screen lid tight but I would not be surprised if one finds a way out. Just wanted to know if meal worms are okay, too? Read today that some say they're fine, others say, not, because of their shell. I was going to buy a different kind of worm from the pet store that is soft. Is there any controversy about meal worms? Can also get some guppies, too. And, do frogs need moss? Mine have real plants and driftwood, plus smooth rocks and a treehouse. Land is pebbles, sand, and dry peat substrate for reptiles. They also have a slightly humid environment then I read somewhere they don't need to be warm. They appear as though they would like being warm because most of what I read said they do like warmth. Just wanted to know how other owners keep their frog habitat? Thanks!

[Jaba96]

No bad bad bad Mealworms can eat thru the frogs stomach if it's not killed and to many can cause an impaction(nightmarw) so NONONONO mealworms

[Hoppity100]

No bad bad bad Mealworms can eat thru the frogs stomach if it's not killed and to many can cause an impaction(nightmarw) so NONONONO mealworms

Well, I wondered if meal worms were ok, the store said that is what they feed them, but, stores may not always have the best advice. I did find out the stores carry a soft worm, forgot their name, but another store sells them, think I'll get those tomorrow. I have crickets with the carrot, fruit, and oatmeal food. I read on the internet some give meal worms and some don't. What I can do is pick thru my container and choose young worms.

[JeffreH]

This is actually false, as there have never been any documented cases of it ever happening to my knowledge (old wives tale):

No bad bad bad Mealworms can eat thru the frogs stomach if it's not killed

This is true:

and to many can cause an impaction(nightmarw)

Mealworms aren't the most nutritionally sound feeder out there... they are fairly high in fat, high in phosphorus, poor meat: shell ratio, and they have a lot chitin in their shell that, as mentioned by the previous poster, can be a hazard if fed in excess.

The key to any good diet is variety. A mealworm here and there isn't going to kill your frog as long as it is of appropriate size and your frog is healthy. I certainly wouldn't feed them exclusively because they are a poor feeder; so consider crickets, feeder roaches, silkworms, earthworms, and solider fly larvae as higher quality, more nutrional feeder alternatives.

You'll probably have better luck with your enclosure and setup questions if you ask them in the Firebelly Toad forum or enclosure forum = )

[Hoppity100]

Hi, I was going to give my frogs a variety in their diet. Just looked in their tank thismorning and they're fine, both had crickets and mealworms since I brought them home. I was not going to just feed them mealworms, I did buy crickets yesterday and they are so hard to catch I will figure out a better way to house them. I'm going to the pet store today to buy different worms and will look at canned insects I read about. I have been reading of controversy about mealworms. What the heck is it about cutting the head off the mealworm? Is this really true? I would rather feed my frogs earth worms because they are soft. Can buy meal worms at intervals plus crickets at intervals, too. Any advice is welcome!

[JeffreH]

You don't need to cut the heads off, the idea of mealworms being able to eat through an animal's stomach is an old wives tale that probably originated from death by impaction.

The hard part of an insect's exoskeleton is a structural, complex polysaccharide that is very similar in cellulose in plants. Just like cellulose, it cannot be digested by most of the animal kingdom and only very specialized organisms can break it down (Fungi and certain bacteria have the capacity to metabolize the polymer). Because chitin cannot be digested, it can potentially act as a blockage in the digestive tract of a herp if fed in excess... this is called impaction, The risk of impaction varies from species to species and individual to individual and is generally associated with particulate substrate ingestion, but it can occur if too many hard bodied insects are fed in the diet (i.e. mealworms).

Not to be confusing, but it worth noting that ALL insects have chitin in their exoskeleton. The hardness is dictated by the relationship of the polymer with scleretin protein residues and other protein components interweaved within the cuticle. This is probably useless jargon to you, but wanted to point that this is why mealworms are more hazardous to feed than say, a silkworm or soldier fly larvae who are soft bodied. Scleretin is probably the true culprit of impactions because it makes the cuticle less flexible and therefore less easily transported through the animal's digestive syem...but I digress.

The controversy behind mealworms is their overall poor nutritional quality [see previous post] and poor meat to shell ratio...which can lead to impaction if fed in excess or exclusively. You can feed them from time to time, just don't go overboard. Think of them like a treat.

So yes - crickets are good feeders and see if you can get an earthworm culture going as they are very easy to breed. You can also supplement the diet with solider grubs (calci-worms/phoenix worms), silkworms, and roaches. Roaches are a great feeder overall and lack the annoyances of crickets because they don't smell, chirp, or jump. Limit waxworms, trevo worms, mealworms, and appropriate sized superworms (zophobas) to treats. As far as variety goes, you don't need to be feeding a different prey item every single day... focus on your staple quality insects for that but just supplement the diet from time to time with other feeders = )

[Hoppity100]

You don't need to cut the heads off, the idea of mealworms being able to eat through an animal's stomach is an old wives tale that probably originated from death by impaction.

The hard part of an insect's exoskeleton is a structural, complex polysaccharide that is very similar in cellulose in plants. Just like cellulose, it cannot be digested by most of the animal kingdom and only very specialized organisms can break it down (Fungi and certain bacteria have the capacity to metabolize the polymer). Because chitin cannot be digested, it can potentially act as a blockage in the digestive tract of a herp if fed in excess... this is called impaction, The risk of impaction varies from species to species and individual to individual and is generally associated with particulate substrate ingestion, but it can occur if too many hard bodied insects are fed in the diet (i.e. mealworms).

Not to be confusing, but it worth noting that ALL insects have chitin in their exoskeleton. The hardness is dictated by the relationship of the polymer with scleretin protein residues and other protein components interweaved within the cuticle. This is probably useless jargon to you, but wanted to point that this is why mealworms are more hazardous to feed than say, a silkworm or soldier fly larvae who are soft bodied. Scleretin is probably the true culprit of impactions because it makes the cuticle less flexible and therefore less easily transported through the animal's digestive syem...but I digress.

The controversy behind mealworms is their overall poor nutritional quality [see previous post] and poor meat to shell ratio...which can lead to impaction if fed in excess or exclusively. You can feed them from time to time, just don't go overboard. Think of them like a treat.

So yes - crickets are good feeders and see if you can get an earthworm culture going as they are very easy to breed. You can also supplement the diet with solider grubs (calci-worms/phoenix worms), silkworms, and roaches. Roaches are a great feeder overall and lack the annoyances of crickets because they don't smell, chirp, or jump. Limit waxworms, trevo worms, mealworms, and appropriate sized superworms (zophobas) to treats. As far as variety goes, you don't need to be feeding a different prey item every single day... focus on your staple quality insects for that but just supplement the diet from time to time with other feeders = )

Hi and thanks for writing, you are very knowledgeable about this, and I got up early and was reading all kinds of info about frog diets and some sites mentioned cutting head off mealworms and some didn't. If anything got stuck inside a frog I would consider that a bowel obstruction! Thismorning I went to the pet store, bought some wax worms? they are whitish-yellow and I got home and found many black ones not moving. I went back to the store, they said the black ones were dead, gave me a new carton and we checked first to make sure worms were alive. When I bought them, there was no date and I asked if they were fresh and was told they were. Now I know why this store did not have good ratings on my computer, they also won't give their hamsters a wheel. Anyway, I got home, each frog got a worm and I cleaned their tank. It took way over an hour, had to set everything up first. I had an easy time transferring them to large container but was nervous getting them back, they really jump fast! The tank had sand in it and I got rid of that (I think it may have contributed to an odor when wet) and I had that peat moss you add water to for hermits. Mine was premixed last night and dry. Instead of sand, I put moss into flat plastic container and sure enough one frog/toad liked it.

I might try guppies next time I go to the store and I don't know yet what to put crickets into so I can catch them easier. If you can think of any other insect, I can try it. I like the idea of earthworms but need to read about breeding them, have never done this before. So, toads/frogs are happy and back in their cleaned tank. I keep hoping I will hear them chirp but they haven't yet. Any other tips are welcome and my tank looks better and I am happy it is, the driftwood, rocks, plants make it look natural, which I think the frogs appreciate. I am glad you wrote about mealworms, I needed to know if it was true about cutting them first. Since frogs are fine, guess like you said it must be old advice.

[JeffreH]

Most pet stores lack knowledgeable staff and provide pretty poor information about properly caring for a pet (any pet). Members of small mammal forums, avian forums, fish forums, and herp forums alike see this trend. Most large name pet stores buy wholesale lots of animals and aim to make as much money as physically possible which leads to puppy-mill style breeding, pushing products that are unnessary or harmful (i.e. calci-sand, coil UVB bulbs, etc), and hiring minimum wage employees who are not adequately trained in all aspects of care for each species that the store sells. Typically the little pamphlets are all that are used to teach employees and customers how to care for pets, and these are often very inadequate and often flat-out inaccurate. The methods are often enough to keep the animals alive as cheaply as possible in store and allow them to survive but not necessarily thrive in the customer's care. You'll find a few exceptional employees and stores here and there that do their extra research and provide the proper information and tools to care for a pet properly, but always take anything an employee says with a grain of salt ; )

Waxworms are a readily available feeder options at most pet stores, so that is probably what you purchased. They are pretty high in fat and are most often provided to gravid (pregnant) herps or those that need a little calorie boost, but they do make for nice treats here and there to any diet. Feel free to feed a few, just don't go overboard... think of waxworms like candy bars for herps.

There are varieties of online suppliers of feeder insects as well if your pet store is limited and you wish you expand your feeder options. Aside from shipping cost, the online prices of feeder insects are often substantially lower than that of pet stores. For example, I can get 1000 crickets at about $0.02 a piece before shipping and handling fees, while most pet stores sell them for about $0.10 a pop. If you are ever interested in some of the more unique feeders like silkworms, roaches, and often soldier fly larvae (phoenix worms/calci-worms) you will likely have to venture online or pick these up from reptile expos. I see you are also from Ohio, we are fortunate enough to have monthly shows in Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland where additional feeders can often be purchased inexpensively.

I'm not very well versed in my feeder fish knowledge so I can't help you out much there... I know some fish are notorious for carrying fluke worms which can be problematic and I generally oppose feeding vertebrates to small herps altogether due to impaction risks, but I'd prefer to have someone else with feeder fish experience chime in before you take my advice on the matter =P

So in a nutshell: focus on your crickets as a staple feeder for now. You may be able to place them in a glass bowl of some sort or a glass custard cup and it makes for a very easy way of feeding them without the hassle of the crickets running all over the enclosure and hiding. The crickets aren't smart enough to jump out and will simply try to scurry up the glass sides in vain until the frog nabs em (I'd assume bowl feeding could work for FBT's?). You can offer the waxworms and mealworms as rare treats and if you want an additional staple insect look into earthworms, feeder roaches, silkworms, or soldier fly larvae. There have been some recent discussions in the forum about all of these species and I believe a topic about breeding earthworms was recently made here which you may find useful = )

Edit: The "Search" function can be a useful tool as well. Here is one quick thread I found on breeding earthworms and I'm sure there are others if this is something you'd be interested in:
http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...questions.html

[Hoppity100]

Most pet stores lack knowledgeable staff and provide pretty poor information about properly caring for a pet (any pet). Members of small mammal forums, avian forums, fish forums, and herp forums alike see this trend. Most large name pet stores buy wholesale lots of animals and aim to make as much money as physically possible which leads to puppy-mill style breeding, pushing products that are unnessary or harmful (i.e. calci-sand, coil UVB bulbs, etc), and hiring minimum wage employees who are not adequately trained in all aspects of care for each species that the store sells. Typically the little pamphlets are all that are used to teach employees and customers how to care for pets, and these are often very inadequate and often flat-out inaccurate. The methods are often enough to keep the animals alive as cheaply as possible in store and allow them to survive but not necessarily thrive in the customer's care. You'll find a few exceptional employees and stores here and there that do their extra research and provide the proper information and tools to care for a pet properly, but always take anything an employee says with a grain of salt ; )

Waxworms are a readily available feeder options at most pet stores, so that is probably what you purchased. They are pretty high in fat and are most often provided to gravid (pregnant) herps or those that need a little calorie boost, but they do make for nice treats here and there to any diet. Feel free to feed a few, just don't go overboard... think of waxworms like candy bars for herps.

There are varieties of online suppliers of feeder insects as well if your pet store is limited and you wish you expand your feeder options. Aside from shipping cost, the online prices of feeder insects are often substantially lower than that of pet stores. For example, I can get 1000 crickets at about $0.02 a piece before shipping and handling fees, while most pet stores sell them for about $0.10 a pop. If you are ever interested in some of the more unique feeders like silkworms, roaches, and often soldier fly larvae (phoenix worms/calci-worms) you will likely have to venture online or pick these up from reptile expos. I see you are also from Ohio, we are fortunate enough to have monthly shows in Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland where additional feeders can often be purchased inexpensively.

I'm not very well versed in my feeder fish knowledge so I can't help you out much there... I know some fish are notorious for carrying fluke worms which can be problematic and I generally oppose feeding vertebrates to small herps altogether due to impaction risks, but I'd prefer to have someone else with feeder fish experience chime in before you take my advice on the matter =P

So in a nutshell: focus on your crickets as a staple feeder for now. You may be able to place them in a glass bowl of some sort or a glass custard cup and it makes for a very easy way of feeding them without the hassle of the crickets running all over the enclosure and hiding. The crickets aren't smart enough to jump out and will simply try to scurry up the glass sides in vain until the frog nabs em (I'd assume bowl feeding could work for FBT's?). You can offer the waxworms and mealworms as rare treats and if you want an additional staple insect look into earthworms, silkworms, or soldier fly larvae. There have been some recent discussions in the forum about all of these species and I believe a topic about breeding earthworms was recently made here which you may find useful = )

I agree with you about pet stores and their methods. I notice ages of employees and too often some can't answer my questions. When I bought the fire bellies, I asked the girl how she was getting them out of their aquarium and she said "with my hand", before I could say anything she already picked up 2 and I doubt she washed her hands first, and she was not wearing rubber gloves! I brought them home and read that they should not really be handled unless necessary and they secrete a toxin that may cause some people to react with a rash. They also have sensitive skin and oils from our hands can affect them, not to mention germs! I did ask her if she could use a net, but I was ignored. She was very casual about picking them up. Fortunately they are alright and I will not be holding them.

I was in the PO the other day talking to a woman also waiting in line, about politics. I was complaining to her how poor the laws and penalties are in Ohio with regard to animals. I mentioned puppy mills, gas chambers, cruelty, etc. She agreed that animals are at the bottom of the list. This has gone on for years about people complaining about rights for animals and nothing is changed. It upsets me about what goes on every time I read another case in the paper. I wish more could be done, it is not fair to treat animals/pets with such disrespect. I have been caring for stray cats here and am still working with one who is learning to trust me, which is my goal, because winter is coming and she has no home. I arranged my garage for her and she has a nice bed, plenty of food, and I hope some day she will get the courage to come in the house.

I got off topic here, but, I will think about an easier way to house crickets and can try getting earthworms or breeding my own. Since you mentioned fire bellies eating fish, I don't know if that's even a good idea, its one I read about. I later read something about feeding snails? How would you feed them a snail? Try to get snail out of its shell? or maybe they are sold some other way? I'll keep reading about fire belly diets. Also are they really toads?..... because they act more like frogs. I hope mine will chirp one of these nights. I would like to hear the sound they make.

[Hoppity100]

Just wondered how many owners schedule feeding and how often they feed their frogs? Because I have 1 fat frog and 1 skinny who is a slightly darker color but he is alert and waiting to eat. I got wax worms out of fridge and am waiting for them to move. Is it ok to feed them 1 worm a day? Mine eat anytime, maybe they did not have enough food during shipping and how do these critters survive during stressful shipping? I guess by luck. And I read last night to add slice of apple or potato to mealworm container and to add no food for wax worms. The wax worms take forever to warm up! And, I took sand out of my tank and have hermit moss dry substrate on land part, they actually like sitting on it. Store was again out of turtle docks, but that's ok, I don't need one now. And, do these frogs survive without a water heater? I can't put mine in tank especially in winter without a heater, they would probably die here without one. It creates humid environment a bit as I have part of my tank covered with clear covering over screen lid to create the humidity. I noticed they love being in water which makes me think of them more as frogs instead of toads, but maybe they really are considered toads?

[JeffreH]

You'll definitely have better luck getting all of your questions answered if you break them up into the appropriate forums = ) I know it can be confusing if you are new to using forums. Because we are in the feeder forum, your questions regarding specific husbandry about Fire-Bellied Toads will likely be overlooked as we are banking on a fellow FBT owner to read through all of these posts and respond. Try posting FBT specific questions in the Bombina forum where plenty of FBT owners will be browsing the new topics eager to help you out in any way. Here is a link to the Fire Belly forum:
Fire Belly Toads (Bombina)


I do not actually keep FBT's... I'm just very familiar with feeder insects and insects in general so I primarily stay confined to this forum. Working in an entomology lab does that, lol ;P

So I'll try to address some of your questions from the previous postings regarding feeders:

The snails will likely be a no go. Snails and slugs have the capacity to act as feeders if you can ensure they are raised in captivity (and the snail's shells have been removed) but this isn't a very common practice to my knowledge. The issue is what they can get into in nature if you collect from the yard. It would not be difficult for either of them to get into some kind of nasty chemical -cide which would make them potentially toxic. Furthermore, gastropods like snails and slugs are notorious for being parasitized by a plethora of potential pathogens, so feeding them may introduce a parasitic pathogen to your frog.

Mealworms should indeed receive some sort of moisture source - apple slices, greens...virtually any kind of vegetable or fruit can work. Try to avoid fruits that are very moisture rich though, as too much moisture settling on the gutload/substrate that the mealworms are living in can result in bacteria and mold growth. Waxworms will not eat anything unique that you try to offer to them. In nature, they are specialists that feed on beeswax and derivatives and are a pest species to bee keepers.

All of your other questions regarding the FBT's specifically will likely be best addressed in the Fire Belly Forum I linked to at the beginning of the post = )

[Hoppity100]

You'll definitely have better luck getting all of your questions answered if you break them up into the appropriate forums = ) I know it can be confusing if you are new to using forums. Because we are in the feeder forum, your questions regarding specific husbandry about Fire-Bellied Toads will likely be overlooked as we are banking on a fellow FBT owner to read through all of these posts and respond. Try posting FBT specific questions in the Bombina forum where plenty of FBT owners will be browsing the new topics eager to help you out in any way. Here is a link to the Fire Belly forum:
Fire Belly Toads (Bombina)


I do not actually keep FBT's... I'm just very familiar with feeder insects and insects in general so I primarily stay confined to this forum. Working in an entomology lab does that, lol ;P

So I'll try to address some of your questions from the previous postings regarding feeders:

The snails will likely be a no go. Snails and slugs have the capacity to act as feeders if you can ensure they are raised in captivity (and the snail's shells have been removed) but this isn't a very common practice to my knowledge. The issue is what they can get into in nature if you collect from the yard. It would not be difficult for either of them to get into some kind of nasty chemical -cide which would make them potentially toxic. Furthermore, gastropods like snails and slugs are notorious for being parasitized by a plethora of potential pathogens, so feeding them may introduce a parasitic pathogen to your frog.

Mealworms should indeed receive some sort of moisture source - apple slices, greens...virtually any kind of vegetable or fruit can work. Try to avoid fruits that are very moisture rich though, as too much moisture settling on the gutload/substrate that the mealworms are living in can result in bacteria and mold growth. Waxworms will not eat anything unique that you try to offer to them. In nature, they are specialists that feed on beeswax and derivatives and are a pest species to bee keepers.

All of your other questions regarding the FBT's specifically will likely be best addressed in the Fire Belly Forum I linked to at the beginning of the post = )

Thank you, I was going to break down my questions, haven't gotten to that yet, have a dog that became ill and am waiting to hear from vet tomorrow, am worried. I was not going to get snails: even though someone wrote about it, its silly for me to try and get a snail out of its shell. I have mealworms with an apple, just got back from getting crickets and had a very hard time with the pet store, now I see why their ratings are so low. I also have wax worms. So, the frogs will be fine, I need to get calcium dust ready to apply. Just too busy to keep up today, but thanks for writing.

[Hoppity100]

I have a new silly but critical question about food: can a fire belly handle eating and digesting a cricket that is a little larger size than the pet store gave me before? Both of mine just ate a cricket, both crickets are a little larger than before. They get crickets into bag quickly because they jump, but I happened to get ones that are larger this time. Has anyone had this experience before? Just checking.....thanks.

[Hoppity100]

Just wanted to know first: do you own fire bellies? If so, do you happen to know if they can eat and digest a cricket a little larger than usual? Mine just did, they are alright, but I wondered if you've had this experience before? I posted moments ago hoping someone would see it and write tonight or even tomorrow. I asked you because you knew about mealworms. Thought you may have heard of larger crickets given to these frogs? Thanks, and the mealworms I have are still alive but a few died in spite of adding a slice of apple, potato. I bought wax worms (the first batch I was given was dead, had to exchange them) and these are the fattest little worms I've ever seen! Frogs love them!

[Hoppity100]

An update on the above paragraph: my green frog twins answered my question: and that is: yes, they can eat a cricket larger than usual. They can also chase a cricket larger than usual. When crickets are eaten, the next day when they are sitting on driftwood or rock, looking bored and unloved, are there any "toys" I can provide? I have a wood bird ladder, a cat ball with jingle bell, plastic salamander that is yellow with red spots that just sits, oh and political ads they can jump from. Other than that, I can't always count on national geo having a reptile show. I guess frogs must be used to sitting and staring into outer space and occasionally jumping. I have heard them chirp in the evening. Anyway, just wanted to update my original question.